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On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 12:02 AM, Kimy said:

Don't ask me what ZAP 8 is doing, because I never looked at it.

 

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 9:34 AM, Kimy said:

ZAP 8 is an unreliable, unstable asset with an unclear future, that many people including myself don't even tolerate in their load order.

Could be a bit of an unfair assertion on your part as you have categorically stated that you've never even looked at ZAP 8.0. Not sure how you'd reach such a conclusion with anything resembling accuracy under that circumstance.

 

I can tell you that @t.ara implemented all of ZAP 8.0 furniture exactly the same way that Zaz and Xaz originally implemented furniture in previous versions of ZAP and the furniture animations being used are primarily those created by Zaz and Xaz that had been intended to be integrated into the pack but until ZAP 8, hadn't been.

 

I'll agree with you that DD is better at wearables implementation than ZAP, I think that's objectively fair. But, not sure why there's so many hard knocks on T.ara and ZAP 8.0 as he has indeed done some nice work on it. As someone who has used ZAP 8.0, and has modded with it, I have not run into any major instability with the ZAP 8.0 furniture or furniture animations.

 

I honestly don't even want to get into this discussion, but felt compelled to speak up for T.ara as there seems to be a lot of unneeded hostility and slander flying around.

 

 

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I think I sounded harsher towards ZAP 8 that I really meant to. But there were so many twist and turns in its direction alone that made it such a confusing product that I couldn't recommend anyone installing it right now. One day backwards compatibility to ZAP 7 matters. Next day it does not. Lots of stuff gets added that's off scope for a BD framework and inflates its file size and animation count (dances....). It's not about the actual code. It's more about the signals I see about its vision and direction that make me uneasy.

 

Please don't get me wrong. I have nothing but respect for t.ara. He's a very talented modeller. But even without having looked at the new code, what I see does not convince me that ZAP 8 is a resource I want to rely on (I have no clue about modelling, but I happen to know a few things about software engineering and project management...). His feelings about DD are also that he doesn't want to use it, albeit for different reasons (he said so in the ZAP 8 thread). These feelings are just mutual. No hard feelings on either side, I guess? But fact is that unlike ZaZ and xaz, t.ara is positioning ZAP 8 as a product -competing- with DD, not collaborating with it (he said that openly as well). Which is fair enough. We're not afraid of competition. But given the circumstances, asking us to set a dependency on that mod is more than a little unreasonable. And that's on top of the "having a dependency on ZAP doesn't make any sense for DD to begin with" bit.

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2 hours ago, Kimy said:

I could use the brick wall argument, too. Because you keep talking about furniture. I am talking about wearables. And DD has no need to rely on any other mod to implement these, because it provides -everything- any mod could ever need, and certainly more that any OTHER mod provides.

 

I sense considerable anger in your typing. Which our exchanges always seem to result in. Which makes me sad. Because I was not and am not after yet another fight with you. Really not. I have no idea what I can do to make you see that I am not out there to fight you. I was just trying to explain why asking to DD to turn back time and set a dependency on a mod it made obsolete is not something that's going to happen. I can assure you 100% that it will not. Never, ever. ZAP got abandoned. DD moved on. The dependency on ZAP is gone. And it won't be back. And that's that.

 

If I can't convince you that DD's restraints features are superior to ZAP and that there is no good reason to cling to a mod that has been abandoned by its creators years ago, then I can't. Not that I need to. The facts speak for themselves. POP is the -last- bondage mod on LL I am aware of still insisting to implement wearable restraints with ZAP. 'nuff said. And by association, you're denying DD Equip users DD4's new features and devices, as well. It's not that we didn't add a few hundred since DD3 or so, and the gap will keep growing. But it's YOUR mod. Do with it what you want. It's your prerogative. *shrug*

Angered? No.
Passionate? You bet.


I do appreciate and respect all the work and free time you choose to dedicate to LL, but ‘your way or the highway’ approach to leading the DD project is frankly a huge letdown.   


Furniture and wearables are both part of the player’s game. Why you are making them mutually exclusive is beyond me.


I never said that DD restraints features were not superior to ZAP, nor did I ever say that ZAP restraints should be used instead. I stated (again, and again, and again) that I would simply like the two mods to be aware of one another. That is all.


In our last argument, after I almost took the ‘highway’, I came back and made POP aware of DD restraints, only for DDi 4 to break that once again. So, here we are yet again. I can either take the ‘highway’ again or do what @Kimy wants and code around @Kimy’s whims.


As for denying DD4's new features and devices you are accomplishing all that on your own without any help from me, @Veladarius or anyone else.  
 

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7 minutes ago, Inte said:

Furniture and wearables are both part of the player’s game. Why you are making them mutually exclusive is beyond me.

 

Seriously?

 

When did I do such a thing???

 

ZAP and DD run absolutely flawlessly together, last time I checked. Actually they do so better than ever, now that their respective bondage code doesn't get in each other's way anymore.

 

But hey, people believe what they want to believe.

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As far as ZAP competing with DD, I don't really see how or where that would take place.

 

As you said, DD is primarily suited for wearables, and ZAP for furniture, they both seem fairly distinct in their purpose, and I don't see any issue with having them separate / not dependent on each other. On the other hand, where possible, it would be good if they weren't at cross purposes so as to not diminish their utility or value to the community because of unnecessary conflicts.

 

I think that both DD and ZAP add value by providing interesting assets and options for Skyrim, for this community, and for Modders trying to build interesting Mods.

 

As far as instability with ZAP 8, I haven't really seen it. Are there differences in artistic opinions and preferences? When aren't there? But if a Modder is putting the time in to build / maintain a Mod, the direction that they take things is to a great extent their own prerogative.

 

It just seems that things have been going off the rails a bit and there's no real need for people to get upset and crosswise over a lot of this stuff. 

 

It's all good...

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6 minutes ago, Tyrant99 said:

As far as ZAP competing with DD, I don't really see how or where that would take place.

 

As you said, DD is primarily suited for wearables, and ZAP for furniture, they both seem fairly distinct in their purpose, and I don't see any issue with having them separate / not dependent on each other. On the other hand, where possible, it would be good if they weren't at cross purposes so as to not diminish their utility or value to the community because of unnecessary conflicts.

 

I guess that's what make me think that:

On 5/12/2018 at 10:39 AM, t.ara said:

Me, I do not play with DD - I only have an old version of DDa beside running, same that was working with maria eden 2.1 in the past. That´s a mod with the DD harness and armbinder (ex soft dependency of zap). That armbinder i did not equip for more than a half year and the harness is same way for me. Both are not exactly suiting but I accept their tradition and this items are "unique" and something like zap-inventory. But I do not play them. And if I start a quest-mod later, I´d exactly not use them. Maybe I´ll simply adopt those both into zap and let DDa aside too. DDa (old version) is only a clothing mod, -nothing else.

 

If I´m six month continuously offline from LoversLab, you can do whatever you want. But let me for now go my one way street , how I think it´s the best.

Ask yourself: what item I (t.ara, me) should prepare or create for DD ??? -  - no thanks!

But inside of ZAP i (t.ara, me) do feel well and I like to work...it´s fun - it´s an amazing resource.

 

And my future quest-mod will not use DD - mods too, you can keep that in mind;-)) 

 

And ..... it´s  VERY IMPORTANT to have always alternative stuff ***available, that has/is been created independent with fun, joy and which is offered for free...!!! :-))

 

***resource with independent items under a different framework

 

Sounds like competition to me.

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Someone building a mod based on ZAP, primarily for its furniture, is going to want to check the actor for items that may be inappropriate to have on when in that furniture. ZAP has all the keywords it needs placed on its furniture telling what it has equivalents of so the modder can either remove those items from the actor or place them in something more suitable. If someone running this mod is using both ZAP and DD then no DD items will be detected and you may have some very strange looking positions with who-knows-which animations will be used. There are two options at this point: Stick with ZAP only (or possibly support older versions that still have the keywords) and not support DD v4 items or make DD v4 a requirement when the author and others may not want v4 or any version of DD installed. This is the position that @Inte is in now. Anyone else wanting to use the ZAP furiture that has built in devices or conflicts with certain devices would have to search for both ZAP and DD keywords on the actor and, of course, require DD v4.

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I'm not sure exactly what he means by all of that, other than he's pretty clear about wanting to do his own thing.

 

I don't see any problem with diversity, or variety, or with people having independent artistic pursuits.

 

For the record, I am not for unnecessary redundancies or having major frameworks working toward the exclusion of each other, as they will be decisively less useful to the community upon doing that.

 

But, I haven't actually seen that happening, and also don't think that it's likely to happen... - But that's my take on it.

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Hi,

me personally I have simply problems with the items of DD. This I did mention sometimes further. There are mods that play inside of a skyrim game, that begin to call very "modern" restraints"-stuff. This depends on the taste of the player simply. (I also played with plastic outfits in the past, no question, but I suddenly lost interest again)

 

I personally liked to play also Cursed Loot in the past and I do respect KIMY, as she is taking care about her mod and forcing the stuff to become working in most perfect way. It also depends on lot of user-request, to bring in this or that new stuff and make skyrim an overall MODERN BDSM GAME to play with, this is also fine and absolutely perfect. I´d miss something if we would not have the DD team. It´s a very important team and maybe the only team here all around who creates new stuff and takes care for newcomers as well:-)

 

For myself I discovered in the past time, that I want not to play with "modern" contence and I lost my interest to the most devices I played with in the past time. And this is a big chance to have ZAP as a mod, that keeps mostly in style of skyrim (as well as possible - some stuff is also far away from skyrim - but it can be trimmed/aged down (by changing forms and textures).

 

The framework of ZAP is not perfect, but the framework of DD is not either and can harm the game massively. In any case, ZAP is not causing any problems in game. The offset-mechanics are "old-school" but I like it how it is that way and I´ll build up future mods by using exactly that simple mechanics like mods did in the past. Tha zap framework is quite enough for my ideas. Running around lot of time inside of restraints is on the other hand not my taste this game should be working. I mean if you are tied up and spawned out into the wilderness of skyrim, you get killed. Some mods take you into slavery-okay. But I plan different stuff.

 

KIMY´s mods don´t work with zap correctly as it has not the wanted items,  so zap does´t offer the right material for those mods and pushing her ideas forward- this is the leading aspect here. But what I will do in future will be alright with zap alone. THIS CAN´T BE BAD: It will mean, that both mods can ALWAYS be used together, as long DD is not influencing the access to the zap test cell for example:classic_wink:. IF DD is an independent mod, it should be important, to let zap working-so that the gamers can use both mods together. And beside both mod´s resources can be used together like we have in the example of "WHITERUN BROTHEL REVAMPED" (and sorry for other´s, who I did not mention here).

 

I do not see any concurrency to DD, because I have completely different material inside the mod (skyrim-furnitures, animation-based on FNIS (mostly). The anal-hook that I made for VIRGIN MARIE, I also put into the pack to make it a resource for everybody and it is in a different form with some variations like others are. Summed up said, that there are coming MORE and MORE items playable. I´ll build them into ZAP and the DD team is entering stuff into the DD-mods. But I think, I will in future let the stuff all inside the pack to protect zap as well as other mods here around want to be respected.

Specially in my position, as I do everything alone and I have lot of different things that I mod and define new. I constructed lot of new meshes for skyrim and am working on lot of custom material to let skyrim again become more rich. I think that I will also be soon ready, to get into scripting as well.  That will be very cool;-)

 

KIMY, WE LOVE YOU ! (and this is not meant to sound ironically), but there are really people who don´t play with your maintained mods. Only a few little percent of skyrim gamers come to this page. And not all of those people play DD or how you think they are playing. It depends on the choice of the gamer with his/her taste - nothing else. 

And my personal "feeded" zap is also ignored and degraded quite well by some well-known users/modders-this all is of course nonsence. ZAP 8+ RUNS like a charm and it´s  perfect framework handles over 1000 furnitures in game with keywords and options. I love it.

 

VELADARIUS: I REALLY ENJOY YOUR COMEBACK !!!! I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST !!!!

 

p.s. so sorry INTE for letting this comment inside your thread (it does´t suit here very well, but some of you  may have awaited my reaction and if not, in this case you have standing here another opinion about this and about that: this=zap and that=DD :classic_biggrin:

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, t.ara said:

Hi,

me personally I have simply problems with the items of DD. This I did mention sometimes further. There are mods that play inside of a skyrim game, that begin to call very "modern" restraints"-stuff. This depends on the taste of the player simply. (I also played with plastic outfits in the past, no question, but I suddenly lost interest again)

 

I personally liked to play also Cursed Loot in the past and I do respect KIMY, as she is taking care about her mod and forcing the stuff to become working in most perfect way. It also depends on lot of user-request, to bring in this or that new stuff and make skyrim an overall MODERN BDSM GAME to play with, this is also fine and absolutely perfect. I´d miss something if we would not have the DD team. It´s a very important team and maybe the only team here all around who creates new stuff and takes care for newcomers as well:-)

 

For myself I discovered in the past time, that I want not to play with "modern" contence and I lost my interest to the most devices I played with in the past time. And this is a big chance to have ZAP as a mod, that keeps mostly in style of skyrim (as well as possible - some stuff is also far away from skyrim - but it can be trimmed/aged down (by changing forms and textures).

 

The framework of ZAP is not perfect, but the framework of DD is not either and can harm the game massively. In any case, ZAP is not causing any problems in game. The offset-mechanics are "old-school" but I like it how it is that way and I´ll build up future mods by using exactly that simple mechanics like mods did in the past. Tha zap framework is quite enough for my ideas. Running around lot of time inside of restraints is on the other hand not my taste this game should be working. I mean if you are tied up and spawned out into the wilderness of skyrim, you get killed. Some mods take you into slavery-okay. But I plan different stuff.

 

KIMY´s mods don´t work with zap correctly as it has not the wanted items,  so zap does´t offer the right material for those mods and pushing her ideas forward- this is the leading aspect here. But what I will do in future will be alright with zap alone. THIS CAN´T BE BAD: It will mean, that both mods can ALWAYS be used together, as long DD is not influencing the access to the zap test cell for example:classic_wink:. IF DD is an independent mod, it should be important, to let zap working-so that the gamers can use both mods together. And beside both mod´s resources can be used together like we have in the example of "WHITERUN BROTHEL REVAMPED" (and sorry for other´s, who I did not mention here).

 

I do not see any concurrency to DD, because I have completely different material inside the mod (skyrim-furnitures, animation-based on FNIS (mostly). The anal-hook that I made for VIRGIN MARIE, I also put into the pack to make it a resource for everybody and it is in a different form with some variations like others are. Summed up said, that there are coming MORE and MORE items playable. I´ll build them into ZAP and the DD team is entering stuff into the DD-mods. But I think, I will in future let the stuff all inside the pack to protect zap as well as other mods here around want to be respected.

Specially in my position, as I do everything alone and I have lot of different things that I mod and define new. I constructed lot of new meshes for skyrim and am working on lot of custom material to let skyrim again become more rich. I think that I will also be soon ready, to get into scripting as well.  That will be very cool;-)

 

KIMY, WE LOVE YOU ! (and this is not meant to sound ironically), but there are really people who don´t play with your maintained mods. Only a few little percent of skyrim gamers come to this page. And not all of those people play DD or how you think they are playing. It depends on the choice of the gamer with his/her taste - nothing else. 

And my personal "feeded" zap is also ignored and degraded quite well by some well-known users/modders-this all is of course nonsence. ZAP 8+ RUNS like a charm and it´s  perfect framework handles over 1000 furnitures in game with keywords and options. I love it.

 

VELADARIUS: I REALLY ENJOY YOUR COMEBACK !!!! I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST !!!!

 

p.s. so sorry INTE for letting this comment inside your thread (it does´t suit here very well, but some of you  may have awaited my reaction and if not, in this case you have standing here another opinion about this and about that: this=zap and that=DD :classic_biggrin:

 

 

 

I am currently using both ZAP and DD 4.0 and haven't run into any special problems that I couldn't handle through MCM settings or console. But I just got an idea due to the way how DD is divided into different pieces (DDa, DDi, DDx). If there will be in the future more ZAP devices which might conflict with the DD devices (e.g anal hook), could those be in their own mod, like ZAPx? This way the end users could chose if they want to have these devices and be ready to deal with some conflicts they might cause.

 

p.s. Also sorry Inte about the hijacking of this thread.

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39 minutes ago, JuliusXX said:

I am currently using both ZAP and DD 4.0 and haven't run into any special problems that I couldn't handle through MCM settings or console. But I just got an idea due to the way how DD is divided into different pieces (DDa, DDi, DDx). If there will be in the future more ZAP devices which might conflict with the DD devices (e.g anal hook), could those be in their own mod, like ZAPx? This way the end users could chose if they want to have these devices and be ready to deal with some conflicts they might cause.

 

p.s. Also sorry Inte about the hijacking of this thread.

Hello JuliusXX,

those devices can be chosen, means the mod is calling the item the player gets equipped with. If there´s something three times available, it is the choice of the quest-modder to decide, what he/she wants to use. And the zap-devices may also be used under the DD-framework if you want it strictly. 

This anal-hook can be used from different mods and can also be part of different mods. Any item can be, like we do have hundreds of different clothing inside the game, working side by side.

 

p.s. this thread is a "nearly" neutral place to talk about it;-))):classic_biggrin:

A "windows-german-text-auto-correction-system" fools me endless.

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9 minutes ago, LorientSS said:

Hell yeah

I reinstalled the newest version of DDe and the actor selecting function finally worked 

Most stuff uses new animations-always press the ORANGE FNIS button before entering the game;-))

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Hi all, 

As you can see, I am not an experienced member of this forum nor do I understand most of the modding terms. But I do sense some conflict, or at least misunderstanding here. 

Let me first state that I love all your mods and appreciate your time and effort in them. 

 

Back to the discussing at hand: 
What I understand thus far (summed up) is this: 
@Inte wants to have the keyword in DD to be compatible with ZAP. 
@Kimy wants to drop ZAP as a dependency for DD
@t.ara is maintaining the new ZAP 8+ and doesn't like most of DD material. 

And I think the worst case is rather well described by @Veladarius, while others say it works fine (for now). I think the solution I see is something you have thought of before, but since I can't figure out from most the arguments up to now that it isn't possible, I still want to suggest it (again, my apologies if this is totally stupid and completely impossible).

 

Would it be possible that the three of you agree on a set of keyword, and how they can called upon, so your mods work well together? No dependencies, just both use the same keywords. This way ZAP would be able to see if someone is wearing DD armbinders, unequip them if necessary, and properly play the furniture animation.  

 

Lastly, @t.ara has a point saying he is not into all the "modern" type bondage. A good way to counter that would be to include a "modern" or "old/lore-friendly/immersive" keyword, with a toggle in the MCM menu to remove all unwanted items from the game. I think more people would be interested in that. 

 

 

I hope this helps, and that I didn't just make a huge fool of myself. 

 

 

With love and enormous respect, 

 

 

LLSkyrimaccount

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1 hour ago, t.ara said:

Hello JuliusXX,

those devices can be chosen, means the mod is calling the item the player gets equipped with. If there´s something three times available, it is the choice of the quest-modder to decide, what he/she wants to use. And the zap-devices may also be used under the DD-framework if you want it strictly. 

This anal-hook can be used from different mods and can also be part of different mods. Any item can be, like we do have hundreds of different clothing inside the game, working side by side.

 

p.s. this thread is a "nearly" neutral place to talk about it;-))):classic_biggrin:

A "windows-german-text-auto-correction-system" fools me endless.

@t.ara

 

Appreciate that English isn't your first language (but as I don't speak a word of your's, you're one ahead of me there!). 

 

I'd like to clarify what you have written in the words I have highlighted in green as they can be understood in a number of different ways.  Specifically:

 

Do you mean that any other modder on LL is welcome to copy an asset you have created for ZAP, and put it into another mod, eg the DD Framework mods?  And if they can add them into other mods, can they also modify that asset so that it can also be fully DD compliant for keywords, other tags, and animations?

 

If that was so, given how good some of your models are, there are probably some talented people out there who might be willing to do that, and make a lot of us very. very happy people

 

:smile:

 

EDIT:  It would also save an awful lot of work in 'reinventing the wheel', and duplication of effort, in producing restraints that more or less look almost the same, but just 'behave' differently, in different mods, in game

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@t.ara Currently I am running ZAP v8.? (fairly recent) and have been evaluating it while testing it with CD. So far I have been through some of the most complex scenes (including the Thalmore Embassy scene) and it ran flawlessly including the furniture. Even with other DD mods (the few I use) I have not had any issues at all with it. Still undecided if I will use it but it isn't something I am against currently. Just as a side note it seems that MME either directly modifies the milkers in ZAP or uses keywords from them to initiate things as the milker in the Embassy that is used wanted to turn the npc into a milk maid when put into it as the milkers used in the Embassy are the plain furniture items from ZAP.

 

@LLSkyrimaccount Using the same keyword without dependencies is not possible, while we see the keyword the system sees the ID of it and having 2 separate mods have the same keyword they will not have the same ID. In the end either one has to have the other as a dependency and add/use its keywords or a common resource mod would need made and both use it as a resource. Changing the keywords used for both ZAP and DD would be disastrous for the modding community that relies on either or both of these mods as it would make everything they have made incompatible and have to be updated (every keyword they use and every item made). So essentially it would require either ZAP to make DD a dependency and add all of its keywords to ZAP items or DD would have to add all of the ZAP keywords back to its items, something neither is willing to do.

 

@donkeywho I had made a mod that used all of the ZAP items (around v5 of it) and created DD items from them. Personally if I were to do something like that again I would not remove the ZAP keywords on them (I won't be removing the ZAP keywords on the custom CD items either). Building a large number of DD items is not something easy to do unless you have done large numbers of them at once and have a system for doing it. One of the reasons I don't plan to update to v4 (beyond personal preferences) is I would have to rebuild every custom device in CD (at least 115 items) as well change the custom scripts I have for them. I have a lot of other things I want to do and time that I can mod is limited.

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39 minutes ago, Veladarius said:

@t.ara
@LLSkyrimaccount

 

@donkeywho I had made a mod that used all of the ZAP items (around v5 of it) and created DD items from them. Personally if I were to do something like that again I would not remove the ZAP keywords on them (I won't be removing the ZAP keywords on the custom CD items either). Building a large number of DD items is not something easy to do unless you have done large numbers of them at once and have a system for doing it. One of the reasons I don't plan to update to v4 (beyond personal preferences) is I would have to rebuild every custom device in CD (at least 115 items) as well change the custom scripts I have for them. I have a lot of other things I want to do and time that I can mod is limited.

'unless you have done large numbers of them at once and have a system for doing it'

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/54452-devious-devices-equip/?do=findComment&comment=2220554

 

You mean something that might be like this?  :smile:

 

I don't profess to know how that works, but he even produced an output file with it, which may or may not work.  I haven't seen anything said about it subsequently ....

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2 hours ago, donkeywho said:

@t.ara

 

Appreciate that English isn't your first language (but as I don't speak a word of your's, you're one ahead of me there!). 

 

I'd like to clarify what you have written in the words I have highlighted in green as they can be understood in a number of different ways.  Specifically:

 

-----Do you mean that any other modder on LL is welcome to copy an asset you have created for ZAP, and put it into another mod, eg the DD Framework mods?

 

NO.

 

  ----And if they can add them into other mods, can they also modify that asset so that it can also be fully DD compliant for keywords, other tags, and animations?

 

THAT is not necessary. You can read more below, why.

 

If that was so, given how good some of your models are, there are probably some talented people out there who might be willing to do that    ??? 

 

NEW STUFF can simply stay inside of zap, I explained why this is better.

 

, and make a lot of us very. very happy people

 

 

 

 

 

:smile:

 

EDIT:  It would also save an awful lot of work in 'reinventing the wheel', and duplication of effort, in producing restraints that more or less look almost the same, but just 'behave' differently, in different mods, in game

 

 

 

HAS IT BEEN ME? ...the stuff came later for DD, first was VIRGIN MARIE´s MODEL (suggested by a reader/modder of the thread out there), same time zap, latest: DD

and it is no disadvantage to have more material as I have mentioned. Every mod can use also zap-devices, like in the past. The DD team will take care of their material, I´m pretty sure. And I´ll take care that zap-stuff will be looking and working most different and with different textures.

And at least the possibilities of stuff is slowly decreasing, there will be an end for new ideas (that are ported from the reality) once.

And I don´t bring stuff that I personally don´t like to create, like extreme torture-nonsence, for example "needles through female-breasts" or virtual "ball-crashers" for skyrim-men. Game or not game, there´s a stop for such a stuff. 

 

 

Hello, dear donkey;-)

 

...zap devices (items, that can be weared as "clothing"-restraints can be also CALLED/used by the devious-framework...if you like to surround the zap-framework, you can do that (of course you must have both mods installed!)

No copy of zap items (i made) should get into other mods, or (by opposite) do you want me to take away material of other mods to put into zap? Is not funny, isn´t it? If you would have read the whole lines, you maybe could have read about to keep zap also in same alive  like other mods as I personally have my adds into that pack. The DD team have all possibilities to create their stuff, but we should be fair enough to let the packs stay unique beside each other - if not, I can at once stop here with that work and put every stuff into a single download and for sharing - funny.

Welcome to use zap, not welcome to grab added stuff away. I think this is NORMAL and keeps every mod to be respected in whole parts. If somebody do not like the dance-stuff, stay with zap 7.0/6.11 or let zap away. The dances use not more than 0.7%-1.8% of the contence of zap and run beside the framework of zap. The most heavy new are the meshes and the textures - and animations for furnitures. The framework has not been changed yet and that´s why it is running like 7.0.

 

That anal-hook is DIFFERENT in every pack. Inside of zap you have differnt textures and also different collars on that item. 

Every mod can change the keywords OR add necessary keywords from every other mod, so that the item is fully compatible for use. For added features, the zap-framework has been overwritten to make adds to the framework itself. Such a curious thing can cause lot of problems for a framework as it is not compatible anymore.

I have been asked to let hands away of the zap-framework and I let it. Now it is highly critisized as an OLD framework.

 

In future I will change some things and we will see, what will happen. I make a bet, that also after that changes, zap will run with the stuff like before.

I have been asked to add the crawling as a common function - and I go further and say, I can add also a riding on "slave-npc´s"! I have prepared a custom NPC- skeleton, that works ingame with different new bones added for different new functions, so that new possibilities may exist one day. But therefore I must change some basics of the framework. For such things I need more freedom to experimentate with under the zap-framework and I have to change stuff that is OUSIDE of ZAP.

 

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

'unless you have done large numbers of them at once and have a system for doing it'

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/54452-devious-devices-equip/?do=findComment&comment=2220554

 

You mean something that might be like this?  :smile:

 

I don't profess to know how that works, but he even produced an output file with it, which may or may not work.  I haven't seen anything said about it subsequently ....

That would work for adding ZAP keywords to DD items. To make DD items from ZAP items it would require making the 2 parts of the device which I do by using a copy of the original item for the script instance or visual piece (it still uses the original mods Armor Addon) and build an inventory item which has the scripts (and its properties would need filled properly). If the devices are similar I can build the first inventory item then copy it and adjust it for the others so long as they are the same type of devices but as I said it only works well for the same type of item as the part that takes the longest is setting up the properties and if it the same type of item it would only require changing a few properties. It still takes a while and is very tedious and boring to do.

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2 hours ago, Veladarius said:

@t.ara Currently I am running ZAP v8.? (fairly recent) and have been evaluating it while testing it with CD. So far I have been through some of the most complex scenes (including the Thalmore Embassy scene) and it ran flawlessly including the furniture. Even with other DD mods (the few I use) I have not had any issues at all with it. Still undecided if I will use it but it isn't something I am against currently. Just as a side note it seems that MME either directly modifies the milkers in ZAP or uses keywords from them to initiate things as the milker in the Embassy that is used wanted to turn the npc into a milk maid when put into it as the milkers used in the Embassy are the plain furniture items from ZAP.

 

Hello Veladarius:-)))

 

As long you don´t use the amount of more furniture, the zap-pack is not important for the famous Captured Dreams MOD.

As I mentined before, you CAN get a huge amount of more posibilities and you can also use vanilla furnitures now for the gamer´s character, like: simple sitting, leaning, the original wall-shackle (imp-wall-shackle) and much more.

I would in anyway keep things as simple as it is and don´t fiddle around with details. NOT EVERY FURNITURE IS USABLE FOR WHIPPING !!! - but the pack has a lot to offer, not at least the WHOLE zap animated-furniture-stuff has become to REAL furnitures !!!  (torture-pole, chaining-poses, hogtie-poses..........)

 I´d not try to use all stuff for one mod, but I think you will find out very quickly, how handy the zap is for setting up interesting locations and take some things for additional deko.  The milkers I did never touch (as it is not my personal taste)  - but I have taken, that they don´t work with bodyslide together and so they are not ideal for maybe most of us. If there´s a huge interest, I can later try to create something, that maybe works for different bodies.

Have also a look at the cages and outdoor-stuff.

 

I can build up lot of things like that and there´s no better place, then to collect them inside of ZAP:-) - That´s why I am here on LL. And if you want to have some custom stuff, please let me know!

ALL the BEST and let´s stay healthy;-)

 

 

p.s. do you think that version 6.11 was running better? - or is it really similar working like v.7.0?... I personally could not test it yet.

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25 minutes ago, t.ara said:

If somebody do not like the dance-stuff, stay with zap 7.0/6.11 or let zap away. The dances use not more than 0.7%-1.8% of the contence of zap and run beside the framework of zap.

I actually made a fun scene using those dances, so I'm glad that they're in there.

 

IMO T.ara and Kimy should do whatever they want to do, and it's fine because they are both adding interesting and different things.

 

The only situation that hopefully would be avoided is if a user could only install one Framework or the other. - I.e. - If a user installed ZAP, DD wouldn't work, or vice versa, if a user installed DD, ZAP wouldn't work. - This would be a disaster! -  As long as that doesn't happen, then it's all fine.

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