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Prostitutes and Brothels in Skyrim: Thoughts and Discussion


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A mod like this could even be the base of a Skyrim wide quest chain if someone was willing to work on the idea.

 

There could be a quest chain to help the girls out if they have abusive pimps, or even one for the player to end up running all the hookers in Skyrim as some kind of super pimp, possibly even blackmailing wealthy clients.

 

The possibilities are fairly extensive, maybe even as big as Amorous Adventures.

 

The second option you suggested (player as Queen of Pimps) is already available in TDF Prostitution by TheDriedFinger.

And it works very well, not counting the fact that it's a perfect, bugfree and stable mod for player's prostitution.

 

The first suggestion (Save The Poor Girls) is interesting and deserves to be implemented.

 

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Since I am not a skilled modder (edits in TES V and hacks are all I can do), I have to ask if it would be possible to add in hooks (for someone else to develop) to RND or other sickness mods.   So if you need it bad, you may get something bad like the "Great Pox" (sphyllis).   

 

Sure there is magic out there to heal those afflicted, but much like lawyers number one rule "Lawyers always get paid", doctors/healers also want to get paid most of the time. 

 

Finally, I could see this as another Alternative start:  The dragonborn is brought to Skyrim as a slave and has to do disgusting things to break free and swear revenge on those that thought to treat him (or her) as a common slave.  Sort of like a Zeverin story line from Dragon Age.

 

 

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Maven might own the brothel in Riften but she wouldn't sully her hands by operating it personally, at worst I would expect that her son in jail would be running that for her and possibly getting regular "Maid Service" visitors to his cell (that wouldn't need to be programmed as much as inserted as a dialog for a "maid dressed whore" in the brothel. Her lodge as a brothel sounds like fun but it's too far away from town to be viable and would probably mess with the silly quest for the horse. Better to add a door down in the cell with the Ragged Flagon, just as the Thieves Guild has their hidden base a Whores Guild could be operating from there as well.

 

Hmmm, that whore in the maid uniform could also talk about doing maid service for Harrald (the Yarl's son).

 

Just thoughts on how that might work in Riften. As always feel free to use, abuse or ignore them since it is your mod after all.

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Well, finally got around to reading this thread, and since I'm so late, I thought I'd multi-quote posts I wanted to respond to... so I might get some extras and badly edited bits left orphaned.

 

I like the idea of this mod, and I do have TDF's AP as someone else mentioned, though I've never gone the Pimpmaster route. Mostly because I don't have any extra npc mods running (had some problems when I tried the Wenches mod, think its my rig that doesn't handle too many extra npcs, especially in Inns).

 

So, my randomy thoughts...

 

 

Love your idea. You comment about Ysolda made me giggled. I wish to see it in Riften It's already corrupted city with skooma dealers, thiefs and similar scum, and there is that Dibela worshipper, Haelga. She is more then competent to lead prostitution business in Riften. :)

I forgot about the bunk house.  You're a genius.  There is servant girl there who could hook on the side.  ;)

 

I think Haelga is simply a nympho (who uses that word any more?).  Her, the horker tusk under her bed :P .  I hate to disagree with you (cuz you my buddy), but I think she would be better as hooker than as a madam.  She would see it as her holy/holey duty as a Dibella worshipper to spread the love...and venereal diseases.

 

I have already started working on this project.  I am doing the 'Whores of Windhelm' first as they as the easiest; street walkers in select Windhelm locations will be available for fast, cheap and unclean sex..just how how street walkers really are.  There will be two random types; the ones who will do it for gold or skooma/dope and the ones who only do it for money.  Some of them have their priorities right. :D

 

 

Svana in the Bunkhouse doesn't strike me as a good sex worker candidate. She has a lot of negative comments: Haelga sleeping with 3 guys, the bunkhouse patrons groping her, working her fingers to the bone cleaning. Now, for a "rescue" option, I could see a quest taking her from there and making her a hooker elsewhere, but not a drop in "work on the side" as you've discussed.

 

On the other hand, Haelga as a call girl / high class consort would definately work. The horker tusk, the manacles on her bed, the pot of honey, leather strips... she's a bit kinkier than a nympho, I think. You could even have a source of the Marks of Dibella that you steal from her three patrons to buy her attentions.  Maybe through the pickpocketing quest and not turning them in to Svana, or by buying them from the patrons, or someone else in town.

 

 

Only one I really dispute is Markarth.  The silver has to go somewhere, that means trade routes to and from the city, probably on a fairly regular basis.  Yes, it's out of the way but it's also the big source of Skyrim's value to the Empire, that means people are going to be making the trip.  That would mean there would be plenty of tired caravan workers looking to "relax" with nowhere to get some between Markarth and Solitude at the least.

 

Focusing too much on the economy in the game I think is folly, as a single player game there was little apparent work put into amount and sources of money.  The city sizes and distances are also generalilzations, and without a real, accurate (out of game) map to show topography, trade routes, distances and all of that, we just do not have the info required to make it make sense.

 

On the other hand, things the NPCs say can be taken as indicators.  Markarth is rich from its silver trade but most of that seems to be concentrated in one family. There are residents of the warrens working all kinds of professions though, so there could very well be some street walkers catering to those that cannot get into the Temple or are not in the Divine's favor. Might even be some shadow Forsworn there as spies with a cover of whore.

 

 

 


Kjajjit caravans?

Maybe not within the scope of what you are making but I've always wanted to do some high end courtesan NPC that travel among the elite locations.

Cats live in hide tents and no one likes them.  Why would a high-class professional broad even consider that?  She'd be parked in a city, sipping wine from silver goblets and living easy.

 

 

Instead of a caravan to the major cities, how about one to the smaller camps, towns and outposts? Perhaps 2-3 workers and a few guards, just in case.

 

They could hit places like Rorikstead perhaps, Stonehills, Nightgate Inn, Darkwater crossing... any little camp or collection of law abiding people (i.e. not bandit camps).  Scripting wise this would either be your Master's project or something to figure out as you learn everything you need to know.

 

Might be more than one. They might also play at being traders or the Nord version of gypsies. Maybe not everyone in the settlement would know what is all for sale, but at least one, like an innkeeper or someone "in the know" might be able to tell you where the caravan is and when they expect it there.

 

Looks like a great project. Most of the suggestions I'd make have already been offered, but:

1) Remember that the lore population of the cities is meant to be around 50x or more what we actually see. I don't like it, but there it is. So, all of the cities have enough population to support whatever you want to put there. 

2) Whiterun could support a couple of street walkers, a hidden brothel (hidden because Balgruf and Maven are pretty much the only Jarls in Skyrim who'd both object and have the power to make it stick), and definitely a high priced call girl. She'd go to the "Cloud District" pretty often. Could even be Nazeem's wife, as she's clearly sick of him. 

3) Morthal could support a really freaky small, hidden brothel, overseen by Alva or another vampire. The girls would be genuine vamps, and the patrons wouldn't know that they were being set up as thralls or cows. 

4) With the Imperial Garrison in Solitude, there are definitely at least two brothels. A cheap place to service the soldiers, maybe in a boat in the bay, and a much more expensive place to service the nobles. Also, again, call girls. Amorous Adventures has a very good storyline where the Bard's College is basically turning out girls for the nobles, and that could be expanded on. 

5) Winterhold. One or two sad, tired widows turned prostitutes would be more than enough for the town, and the students (like students everywhere) would take care of one another, but the college could probably support a hidden Succubi Summoning Chamber that provides services for the older, less attractive instructors.

6) Riften. The Thieve's Guild would want a cut from any brothel, as would Maven. The Jarl would know nothing. And, yes, Haelga is pretty much textually the high priced call girl of the town. She could easily have turned out her niece as well. 

 

I will just kinda riff off of Old Book's ideas with my own here.

 

Whiterun strikes me as one of the more "open and aboveboard" cities, without anything nefarious going on. I think Ysolda servicing everyone is more of a loverslab joke than something directly from the game, and I'm not sure that Nazeem's wife Ahlam doesn't strike me as a secret madam either.  On the other hand, if you were to slip in a couple brand new NPCs I think that they could fit into the city very well since there are a number of unrelated and unconnected people that mill about, interacting with each other. The simple "a little on the side" option here would be Saadia.

 

I like the vampire feeding brothel idea for Morthal... inspired by the Redwater den? Either way, Alva running a couple vampire girls as a madam, and Laelette as a failed prospect.. possibly even Hroggar's wife was approached as well (just not about the vampire part, yet) and she turned Alva down, thus becoming the problem and why she was killed.

 

Alternately, Morthal is a bland, bleak place with little going for it and less traffic. Possibly they're a bunch of hedonists behind closed doors and are willing to do anything with anyone that happens to come through town. (Alva just doesn't get invited, especially after that "accident" where she encouraged Hroggar, or his wife, to try something unspecified.)  Jonna as the innkeeper might keep a social calendar, to make sure everyone is getting enough, and you could sign up with her for the next person looking for some "strange". Up to you if Idgrod the Younger is on the list.

 

Solitude strikes me as a large enough town to have everything avalable. Windhelm to a lesser extent.  They are both billed as large cities, both have sizable ports, and would be otherwise bustling trade cities. There should be high class brothels to cater to the nobles and better traders, and low for the soldiers, sailors and small timers. That might be a little much for the scope of this mod, for now. There is a mod that added a brothel in Solitude. I think it was to support another mod but I forget the name.

 

Winterhold always confused me, since it was apparently large enough to host a college, and was home of a high king some time in the past, and yet it is such a minor hold now.  Is that entirely due to it having fallen into the sea, or some other factor? Just how much of the town fell in?  How many people died? How many were not at home and were homeless until they moved to another city?  The young widow idea makes sense, or "orphaned" adult children that now have nothing and no where else to go, or money to get there.  You would also have the "just paying their way through college" types.  May also have a side business for the instructors, especially Illusion and Conjuration either making you or your partner look better (or worse) than you do.  For an entirely different mod, I could see the Restoration master running a BDSM and healing all those whip wounds before you leave, for secrecy.

 

Riften I touched on a little already.  I think the Theives guild could be in on a brothel but not in the Flagon.  They seem quite suspicious of anyone that tries to get down there.  On the other hand, I can see something running out of the Bunkhouse, but more as a girl on call service. It isn't a public inn, but a rent by the week place. Maybe Haelga could be a working madam, and by buying Marks from her you could get "favors" or "worship" with certain people around town, (just not her niece).  I found this UESP while double checking on Madesi:

Madesi: "Lady Haelga, so pleased to see you. Your Marks of Dibella are ready."
Haelga: "Oh, splendid! I can't wait to use them."
Madesi: "Begging your pardon milady... I know these have something to do with Dibella, but whatever are they for?"
Haelga: "Maybe I'll show you one day, Madesi. Have them delivered to the Bunkhouse, won't you?"

 

A few comments idea's. For Riften it could also be owned by the thieves guild. Which depending if you wanted to do much work could be a alternative way to get working for the thieves guild. You could add a new door down along the water walkway that leads to the brothel there, it would be out of the way. Or if you want Mavean to own it, you could convert her country house to it. Something else that never really gets used in game and is a large location.

 

In Solitude you could use the bards college, it was never fully fleshed out and it is a pretty big building. The bards could see sex as a form of art and some of them there practice that kind of art instead.

I've thought some about the Thieve's Guild and it lends itself to hooking and whoring if a standard fantasy genre is taken into account.  Bethesda didn't do that.  At one point Niruin has a discussion with Rune about starting a brothel, but Rune states that Brynjolf (who is more of a douche than I already thought he was) won't allow it.  This makes no sense.

Street hookers would do duty as informants and pickpockets, as well as whoring.  They would be nominal members of the Thieve's guild, one step above beggars.

Then there is Vex.  I can totally see her sitting in a tavern shilling fat merchants.  She would hook on the side, but only as a means to get close to the really prime targets.  Vex goes to this merchant's house and cases the joint while she's there.  She begrudgingly fucks him and then goes back at a later date to steal everything that isn't nailed down.  This isn't necessarily hooking, but it would be a good cover story for her.  It would keep cautious or suspicious targets from asking questions like 'Why is this hot girl talking to me?' or 'What is she after?'  Her looking for a john would disarm them.

 

From the game play aspect using the Thieve's Guild would be a pain in the ass.  The conversatation between Niruin and Rune: either the player would have to be far enough along in the Guild quest line to have heard this line OR just simply delete it or block it from happening.  Realistically, anything to do with a brothel would have to start after the player is guild master.  That's a pain in the ass and not worth it.

 

Maven Black-Briar has possibilities.  In the quest 'Promises to Keep' the player has to steal Frost's lineage papers.  Once the player gets to Black-Briar lodge the place is a dump and there are bandit style mercenaries to fight.

Option 1: Totally redo the lodge and get rid of the mercenaries.  Just make getting Frost more of a cake-walk than it already is.  Who really cares?

Option 2: Have scripted parent objects disable the mercenaries and unwanted items in the lodge and another scripted parent to enable the brothel NPCs and objects.  Once the player completes 'Promises to Keep' the parents are enabled/disabled and the brothel is in place.

 

I like option #1; get rid of everything and be free to give the lodge a full make over.  All the player would have to do is walk in and take the lineage papers.  What difference does it make if the player doesn't get to fight 8 fucking bandit-types?

 

Out of all of the locations for a brothel, Black-Briar lodge has a lot of potential.  :)

 

I don't like the idea of Bards being whores (sorry).  According to game dialogue the bard tradition is respected.  The only NPCs I've heard say snotty things are the guards once the player is a bard, but that's just Bethesda dev nerds doing what they do; making the player feel like a dumb ass.

 

 

I kinda like the Lodge idea too, but it always seemed like it was a very long way out of town.  I would think less a brothel and more a resort with hot and cold running girls (or boys) as part of the room price. Black briar mead is supposed to be the best beer, why not keep going with the "best of" theme.  Frost's papers could be in the office with other Black Briar business files. The lock box could also be there, or stashed in another room, possibly Sibi's old room.

 

The bard-as-a-whore thing was a kinda on the sly thing as I got it. Might be harder to tie someone else's unrelated mod to yours, but similar to Winterhold, you could have one or two of the bard students (maybe ones you just add) that are "working through school." Medium level rates, gold only, no drugs, most activities.

 

 

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I've had a set back with the mod.  I just fucked off my weekend turning Narri in Falkreath into a whore and she refuses to do the packages and at one point the quest will not update. My debug messages are not showing and checking in the console says my quest cannot be found.  10 seconds before that I had consoled GetStage and the quest was there.  I'm stumped.   Everything is as it should be (using the same 'go here to fuck' scheme as I did for the Windhlem whores).  All of the scripts compile all of the conditions are correct; and she won't do a damn thing but say the lines, take the money, and then stand there.  I am depressed.

 

The only thing I can think of is the problem is Narri herself.  She could have bugged vanilla AI, she has a faction that's preventing her from doing anything but what she does (like bards), I could have a mod somewhere that changes her and I don't know.  It could be anything.

 

I'm going to add a new npc to Dead Man's Drink and try this again.  The Windhelm NPC whores I added work so I'm thinking it is vanilla NPC thing.  Has a sad.  :(

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Yep.  Made a new NPC and they did what they were supposed to when they were supposed to.  Something about Narri was blocking my scripting and quest.  I THINK it was the Job faction she had.  SO, after a wasted weekend because of something I'm still clueless about I'm pressing forward with the mod.  :P

 

Other things about the mod's direction:

No slavery

No diseases

No bestiality

No hooks to DAYMOYL, Defeat, Submit, etc.

 

And I'm not putting a posh brothel in a fucking sewer in Riften.  Who in their right mind would negotiate a nasty sewer full of dangerous crazy people just to go to a whore house?  And if anyone did manage to make it there, they wouldn't be able to get in because they'd covered with shit-water and blood.

'Sorry buddy, we have a dress code.'  :lol:

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Glad for you Kendo :)

 

After so many discussions about brothel's place, you should place it in Sovengard - (Just kidding)

 

And I like your "NO's" - except "No bestiality" :) The reason for that is you can have a Player that is voyeur. He might order a call girl and he just want to watch her fuck by horse or a dog. But, it is your mod and you have full right to do it as you wish. I respect that. :)

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Okay!  *Does victory lap around Sexlab modding race track*

 

Narri didn't work out BUT we have the next best thing; her sister Tekla.  Yeah, they're sisters.  Who knew?  Anyway, I gave Tekla a slight makeover and changed her outfit and storyline use in the game.  There wasn't much of one to begin with and I was able to write a nice little narrative for her.  The mod will be updated tomorrow with someone new to fuck.

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Nah, I think that nervous raspy voice suits her personality.

 

I didn't want to change her to where she's unrecognizable as the vanilla character so for the sake of the mod I redid her basics.  I wanted her to look like she took a bath and discovered eyebrow tweasers and make up.  I redid some of her face geometry but not much.  She's not frog-eyed anymore.

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I think Goldenglow Estate is a better (if not the best) place for a brothel than the manor.

Oh I agree.  But how many vanilla quests would I have to script around and account for?  You have to rememberI am a Skyrim scripting rookie with almost no experience and a lot to learn.

 

Something else too is the player would have to be a member of the Thieve's Guild to get access to the vanilla quest for the estate.  For it all to make sense the place wouldn't be a brothel until after that quest is completed.  That isn't something I want since I dislike mods that require faction membership when they don't need to have it.

 

Wherever I stick a brothel it needs to be accessible to any player.  No factions, no running vanilla quest stages, doesn't have to be the Dragonborn.  I want to make so that if a player has ignored the whole game they can still go to the brothel.

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You're right, of course. I just thought you might think of a workaround or something. :)

 

I think a brothel should be located outside a town/city, but still relatively safe place to travel, such as the farms around Whiterun or the Honningbrew Meadery. There isn't such a building in the game as far as I know, but there might be a few empty areas that can be used to accommodate such a building. You might want to search Nexus for custom player homes that utilize one of those locations.

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As to Riften + sewer, why would they depend only of that hard to use entry ?

Given canals in the city, putting a door somewhere = easy, direct & even "clean" access.

Then, having another entry point into the Thief quarter, good idea, as they would have ties (informations first, money second; think key, there lies the option of a specialised sub mod for this one :P) .

In any case, if something does not fit, change some / all of the settings, reconsider, it should always be some way to do/go.

To be seen, looking good so far.

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Adding a door on the exterior Riften canal level is easy.  Updating the exterior's nav mesh so NPCs will use the door is the problem.  Everything that might be broken the with vanilla game's nav mesh suddenly becomes an issue; PCs won't cross the boundaries between other exteriors (even ones that haven't been changed or updated).  I want to focus on the mod itself, not fixing things that were broken in the vanilla game to begin with.

 

It is looking more and more like I'll be using Black-Briar Estate.  To address the role play issue of it being in the middle of nowhere, I can make wagons and drivers spawn in the estate's exterior to simulate wealthy clients making special trips to visit the place.  Make the spawns random from a leveled list so it won't be the same NPCs weraing the same clothes every time the player goes there.  I would have to do the same thing for the interior so one more list and one more spawn point is no big deal.

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Started on the next victim..er..uhm..working girl; a flower girl in Solitude who wanders the gate area and the market during the day.  She does sell flowers, but they're 50 Septims a piece and she'll only show them to you if you have the room at The Winking Skeever rented.

 

I'm putting Abelone in Dawnstar on hold for the time being.  After the fiasco with Narri and wasting what little mod time I have I've decided to stick with 'uncomplicated' vanilla NPCs or ones that I add.  Once I know more I'll start branching out.

 

I would like to take a moment and thank everyone who's posted and offered ideas.  I take all suggetsions under consideration (some more than others) and I'm glad there is interest in this little project.  Thank you all again.  ;)

 

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It is looking more and more like I'll be using Black-Briar Estate.  To address the role play issue of it being in the middle of nowhere, I can make wagons and drivers spawn in the estate's exterior to simulate wealthy clients making special trips to visit the place.  Make the spawns random from a leveled list so it won't be the same NPCs weraing the same clothes every time the player goes there.  I would have to do the same thing for the interior so one more list and one more spawn point is no big deal.

 

A ritzy "destination" location does eliminate most of the travel related issues.  Just realized... how far is the Thalmor Embasy outside of Solitude? Razelan walked there and might have been partially drunk.

 

Kendo 2 - thanks again for working on this great mod. What flower girl you talking about? :) What is her name? I know for one in Riften and some Vanilla kids.

 

I think he means to create a new NPC, and "flower girl" is her occupation. She's selling nice upscale flowers in a nice, upscale town, but the flower you get when you buy one isn't out of the basket over her arm.. *wink wink*.

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I think he means to create a new NPC, and "flower girl" is her occupation. She's selling nice upscale flowers in a nice, upscale town, but the flower you get when you buy one isn't out of the basket over her arm.. *wink wink*.

 

Oh, I see. thanks for clarifying this to me. I understood that he talks about flower girl that is already axist in the game. My apologies.

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I think he means to create a new NPC, and "flower girl" is her occupation. She's selling nice upscale flowers in a nice, upscale town, but the flower you get when you buy one isn't out of the basket over her arm.. *wink wink*.

 

Oh, I see. thanks for clarifying this to me. I understood that he talks about flower girl that is already axist in the game. My apologies.

 

 

He had talked about changing other NPCs but with the issues he had with Narri, I'm guessing he is going the a "add a new npc" route instead, similar to Windhelm.

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I think he means to create a new NPC, and "flower girl" is her occupation. She's selling nice upscale flowers in a nice, upscale town, but the flower you get when you buy one isn't out of the basket over her arm.. *wink wink*.

 

Oh, I see. thanks for clarifying this to me. I understood that he talks about flower girl that is already axist in the game. My apologies.

No-no-no-no.

 

ORIGINALY I intended to have a little girl be the hook where she asked the player to buy a flower.  When the player asked 'How much for a flower, little girl?' she would have said they were 50 Septims each.  Then she would have explained there's a nice lady in the Winking Skeever who really likes 50 Septim red mountian flowers and she's 'very nice' to people who take her one.

 

The whole idea was this little girl and the 'nice lady' were actually working together.  They used the little girl to get customers and then she sent them to the lady in the tavern for a hook up.  The 50 Septim flower thing was a way for them to pimp and whore and not have the money in the same place.

 

But I scrapped all of that because of the nature of the mod and people being how they are.  Despite the arrangement bewteen the little girl and the hooker being realistic, it would draw too much internet drama.  It was a good idea but I know some people would intentionally misunderstand the set up so they could cause trouble.  I don't want that for LL or Ashal.

 

So now it is just the new NPC hooker selling flowers for 50 Septims.  Why she does that is explained in her dialogue.

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I think he means to create a new NPC, and "flower girl" is her occupation. She's selling nice upscale flowers in a nice, upscale town, but the flower you get when you buy one isn't out of the basket over her arm.. *wink wink*.

 

Oh, I see. thanks for clarifying this to me. I understood that he talks about flower girl that is already axist in the game. My apologies.

No-no-no-no.

 

ORIGINALY I intended to have a little girl be the hook where she asked the player to buy a flower.  When the player asked 'How much for a flower, little girl?' she would have said they were 50 Septims each.  Then she would have explained there's a nice lady in the Winking Skeever who really likes 50 Septim red mountian flowers and she's 'very nice' to people who take her one.

 

The whole idea was this little girl and the 'nice lady' were actually working together.  They used the little girl to get customers and then she sent them to the lady in the tavern for a hook up.  The 50 Septim flower thing was a way for them to pimp and whore and not have the money in the same place.

 

But I scrapped all of that because of the nature of the mod and people being how they are.  Despite the arrangement bewteen the little girl and the hooker being realistic, it would draw too much internet drama.  It was a good idea but I know some people would intentionally misunderstand the set up so they could cause trouble.  I don't want that for LL or Ashal.

 

So now it is just the new NPC hooker selling flowers for 50 Septims.  Why she does that is explained in her dialogue.

 

 

I seeeee. :)  thanks for explanation Kendo. Although I love original idea (little girl and prostitute works together), I agree with you that is good to eliminate it to avoid unnecessary criticism and arguing. Well, having fresh flowers and the girl in the same time for good price is a great deal. ;)

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