and there wonder why they get banned

[Ark of Truth]

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=14380

 

Look through this mod. It's a nice mod which brings another great armor to Skyrim but wow look at all the bans which got handed out, I don't blame the mods this time.

 

 

Seriously are asians really that bad? I think LM might have been having a bad day.

[Guest Gandalf]

I was just there as well i don't see why some feel the need to make derogatory comments in the first place,it's very easy for me to simply move on if i don't like a mod.

 

 

[gregathit]

ROFL!!! The really sad part of the thing is....those knuckleheads that are getting banned just don't seem to understand "WHY" it is not cool to take dump on someone's work. Take a brief couple of minutes to check the profiles of those who were banned and you see that not a single one of them have ever made a mod.

 

Clearly they don't understand the work that goes into mod making!

[Narsdarknest]

in this case I have to agree with nexus in these bans, especially those who say that this mod does away with the lore of Skyrim with how easy it is to not use a mod to end your precious lore without throwing to the ground work, which of course I love that clothes succubus!

 

a Mod is a modification of the original, turn the game into something different, these people who talk bad about anyone a mod because it changes the original seems a little stupid (pardon the expression), being in a modding community is not want to play vanilla.

[Ark of Truth]

ROFL!!! The really sad part of the thing is....those knuckleheads that are getting banned just don't seem to understand "WHY" it is not cool to take dump on someone's work. Take a brief couple of minutes to check the profiles of those who were banned and you see that not a single one of them have ever made a mod.

 

Clearly they don't understand the work that goes into mod making!

 

Some mods take years to completely finish which is loads of hours a person gives up to make the mod. Yes I found it funny to that they complain and they have not even made one mod.

[Vitriks]

Thats why Asians got their 3DM. It's not about bad or good, it's about the whole nexus pussy community, that will piss their pants if someone say some critics. Pretty much people just don't understand it.

[Guest Gandalf]

There is absolutely no need to criticize something that is being given away for free.

There is an old saying that goes,"Never look a gift horse in the mouth."

 

It dosen't make a bit of sense to complain about something you don't like and won't use anyway.

 

It seems to me that there has to be a deeper motive than what they offer up in their rants.

[Surenas]

That's a piece of cake! Trolls rant for the sake of rant, bartering feedback, the drug they are on.

[thesapien]

I can't really explain why I post, good or bad. It always seems easier to explain someone else's behavior. I'd venture that they are in pain, dis-eased, and do so to share their pain, spreading their disease. The behavior is thus like a virus.

 

I'm not sure banning them is the best course of action. A healthy community should be mostly immune anyway, just skipping happily over such negative comments instead of feeding them. Banning could be seen as their glory, ultimate suicide, martyrdom, and reason for returning with more of the infected, like a trolling-feedback. The difference between trolling and trolling for trolls is very grey and runs the risk of becoming an evil that begets more evil.

[demongoat]

ROFL!!! The really sad part of the thing is....those knuckleheads that are getting banned just don't seem to understand "WHY" it is not cool to take dump on someone's work. Take a brief couple of minutes to check the profiles of those who were banned and you see that not a single one of them have ever made a mod.

 

Clearly they don't understand the work that goes into mod making!

 

Some mods take years to completely finish which is loads of hours a person gives up to make the mod. Yes I found it funny to that they complain and they have not even made one mod.

 

sorry but i don't see how making mods has anything to do with whether or not you have the right to criticize someone else's work. by that logic barely anyone has the right to criticize anyone's mods since very few people produce mods.

the game has sold millions, how may people do you think have made mods? a few hundred? maybe? are they the only ones that can criticize poor mods?

 

if we take that logic outside the modding community, a tiny amount of people can really criticize anyone in certain fields.

people criticize the president, logically only 44 men could out of billions.

 

yeah extreme example, but i've been told that i can't criticize someones horrible art before, because i'm not an artist who posted art on the website. honestly, no matter how people use that argument it is still poor. the argument is no more logical than stating "don't listen!!!" to someone who stumbled on a music video of a horrible band on youtube.

had that happen too lol, no one likes my opinions much apparently, they call me a troll

[demongoat]

There is absolutely no need to criticize something that is being given away for free.

There is an old saying that goes' date='"Never look a gift horse in the mouth."

 

It dosen't make a bit of sense to complain about something you don't like and won't use anyway.

 

It seems to me that there has to be a deeper motive than what they offer up in their rants.

[/quote']

 

while i agree that they really are better off just ignoring the mods they don't like, i think people have a right(well not on nexus) to voice their displeasure, even with things they get for free.

 

why doesn't it make sense to you? something being free doesn't magically make it off-limits to criticism.

any sane person would complain if they were given shit flavored icecream even if it was free.

 

the only motivation i saw for people was just what a few of the complaints said: they didn't like that more mods are turning the game into an anime, they wish the modders would make more lore friendly mods.

well the first one was just a stupid comment about hentai's characters face, well so was the second only more of a whine about how hentai won't release it.

it is a perfectly valid complaint, just not in the mods comments.

 

 

 

[itchymonkey]

ROFL!!! The really sad part of the thing is....those knuckleheads that are getting banned just don't seem to understand "WHY" it is not cool to take dump on someone's work. Take a brief couple of minutes to check the profiles of those who were banned and you see that not a single one of them have ever made a mod.

 

Clearly they don't understand the work that goes into mod making!

 

Some mods take years to completely finish which is loads of hours a person gives up to make the mod. Yes I found it funny to that they complain and they have not even made one mod.

 

Skyrim has been out for only 6 months, how can these mods be under development for years?

[gregathit]

Skyrim has been out for only 6 months' date=' how can these mods be under development for years?

[/quote']

 

 

Talking about oblivion in this case.

 

Regardless of time spent, modding is a hell of a lot of work so dumping on it because it isn't your flavor is poor form. Just move on to something that is.

 

[Guest Donkey]

ROFL!!! The really sad part of the thing is....those knuckleheads that are getting banned just don't seem to understand "WHY" it is not cool to take dump on someone's work. Take a brief couple of minutes to check the profiles of those who were banned and you see that not a single one of them have ever made a mod.

 

Clearly they don't understand the work that goes into mod making!

 

Some mods take years to completely finish which is loads of hours a person gives up to make the mod. Yes I found it funny to that they complain and they have not even made one mod.

 

Skyrim has been out for only 6 months' date=' how can these mods be under development for years?

[/quote']

 

lovers with pk took more then 2 years to get where it is now. FCOM also took many years to be where at is now. Bigger mods always take allot of time to make. Usually smaller once gets finished much quicker like house mods or companions.

 

Also the reason. For mods was OBSE, OBSE took allot of time to make. So the more options became avialable by obse the more options a modder got to make a better version of it's mods.

 

When oblivion first came out it was buggy as hell so allot could not have been done at first, till the bugs got ironed out. In the end modders got sick of waiting for bethesda to fix oblivion and started to fix it themselfs. Oblivion till this day is still wriddled with bugs and stability issues. low memory usage also was a bottleneck for oblivion.

[Guest Gandalf]

There is absolutely no need to criticize something that is being given away for free.

There is an old saying that goes' date='"Never look a gift horse in the mouth."

 

It dosen't make a bit of sense to complain about something you don't like and won't use anyway.

 

It seems to me that there has to be a deeper motive than what they offer up in their rants.

[/quote']

 

while i agree that they really are better off just ignoring the mods they don't like, i think people have a right(well not on nexus) to voice their displeasure, even with things they get for free.

 

why doesn't it make sense to you? something being free doesn't magically make it off-limits to criticism.

any sane person would complain if they were given shit flavored icecream even if it was free.

 

the only motivation i saw for people was just what a few of the complaints said: they didn't like that more mods are turning the game into an anime, they wish the modders would make more lore friendly mods.

well the first one was just a stupid comment about hentai's characters face, well so was the second only more of a whine about how hentai won't release it.

it is a perfectly valid complaint, just not in the mods comments.

 

 

 

Your shit flavored ice cream example doesn't fit the situation at all.

You're not being asked to taste or install the mod,so the mod doesn't effect you in any way.

 

Also it seems most confuse criticizing with bashing,trashing and insulting the modder.

Critiquing a mod is fine bashing,trashing and insulting the modder isn't.

 

Ok what is the motive for trashing someones work?

What's the point to post just to tell someone their mod isn't lore friendly?Better yet what will that accomplish?

 

eh,trolls are trolls that's what it boils down to.

 

[itchymonkey]

ROFL!!! The really sad part of the thing is....those knuckleheads that are getting banned just don't seem to understand "WHY" it is not cool to take dump on someone's work. Take a brief couple of minutes to check the profiles of those who were banned and you see that not a single one of them have ever made a mod.

 

Clearly they don't understand the work that goes into mod making!

 

Some mods take years to completely finish which is loads of hours a person gives up to make the mod. Yes I found it funny to that they complain and they have not even made one mod.

 

Skyrim has been out for only 6 months' date=' how can these mods be under development for years?

[/quote']

 

lovers with pk took more then 2 years to get where it is now. FCOM also took many years to be where at is now. Bigger mods always take allot of time to make. Usually smaller once gets finished much quicker like house mods or companions.

 

Also the reason. For mods was OBSE, OBSE took allot of time to make. So the more options became avialable by obse the more options a modder got to make a better version of it's mods.

 

When oblivion first came out it was buggy as hell so allot could not have been done at first, till the bugs got ironed out. In the end modders got sick of waiting for bethesda to fix oblivion and started to fix it themselfs. Oblivion till this day is still wriddled with bugs and stability issues. low memory usage also was a bottleneck for oblivion.

 

Ah, I didn't know that, thanks!

 

Gotta hand it to the Oblivion modders, they are some talented individuals to fix Oblivion the way they did.

 

Makes me slightly disappointed that Bethesda made Skyrim so limited in terms of how animations and music are now handled.

[rylasasin]

Actually to me it illustrates another very important point.

 

Nexus apologists like to claim that the reason that the reason that Dark, VampireDante, buddah, etc. Are so harsh with their administrating, and that the reason that nexus is so harsh with its rules is that it helps keep the trolls away. Is that without it Nexus would be overrun with trolls and flamers. That it is designed to mold the community into a much friendlier and politer community.

 

... but does it really work?

 

To me, this and quite a few other examples quite clearly show that no it certainly does not. Trolls are still trolling, Flamers are still flaming, and the community over there is not any nicer or less nasty than it ever was. If anything, it's only gotten worse over time.

 

Which brings me to my point: That "Father Knows Best" (centralized administration for everything.) and especially "Zero Tolerance" (No or very little warnings, infraction=instant ban, bans are permanent and apply to everything.) style of administration (especially at the insane levels that Nexus employs them.) Does not work for any site and Never will work, especially in the long run.

 

The former works fine for small-medium sized forums that get less than 100k of traffic per day. but not for massively over sized sites like Nexus. All it does is lead to an overwhelming amount of work needed on the part of the administration, which not only creates more stress, but also makes them a lot more desperate in turn to alleviate the constantly mounting pressure from Mod owners and users alike to police them, and this can only lead to one of two outcomes: Either the admins become more and more lax in enforcing their own site, or it leads to them hiring on lesser and lesser qualified mods and admins to fill the gap. The latter leads in turn to what I call "Rodeo Administrating". That is, rather than seeing their job as a civic duty, a chore to be carried out with caution and diligance, they get overeager and get to the point to where they not only enjoy the act of banning users, but actively look for every opportunity to do so. The attitude shifts from "I'm sorry, but you've broken the rules, so I'll have to ban you" Into "Oh joy, who do I get to ban today!? Oh look there's one haha another one to my count!"

The problem here is apsolute power AND responsiblity in the hands of an elite few. This almost always has, and almost always will lead to what's commonly known as "Website Fascism"

 

Which leads me to my second point: that "Zero Tolerance" policies almost always do more harm than they do good. This is a hard thing to understand for most people. Indeed, we're often taught that the harsher the punishment, the more it. Take for example, you're typical process. A flamer flames over at the nexus. Or even, just says something that does not fit in the extremely low bar of constructive criticism. He gets banned forever, end of story, right?

 

Well no. What they like to forget, is that when you ban a person, you don't kill them. There is still another pissed off person at the end of it. Now let me ask you, what is the most likely course of action?

1. That said person, in the face of an all-encompassing, 100% permaent for-life ban will simply stop using the one site the community has in order to download mods for one of the games with one of the largest on earth, like he's "supposed to".
    
   
2. That said person will go to the forum which odds are they had very little interest in to begin with, go to the "I got banned from nexus, now what?" topic which no one told him to go to, and use the unbanning form which in all likelyhood will not work for them and will most likely get ignored anyway (honestly how many times have you ever seen someone get reinstated on that forum, out of thousands and thousands of bans they've put out)?
    
   
3. or simply try to evade by creating another account, and carrying on like nothing's happened, or at best, trying to keep a low profile.
   

 

It only follows logic, that given the circumstance, they would most likely choose #3, and Darkone and his staff are, at best, highly deluding themselves if they think they'd do anything different. As you can see, permanently banning someone right off the bat with very little warning really doesn't do anything at all! I mean, is it really any wonder they have a constant troll and ban evasion problem over there!

 

Not only do the bans not really do anything at all in this case, but you're not even really "Teaching" or "Discipling" said trolls and flamers at all! In fact, you're only encouraging them to take the path of least resistance to get around the ban, and so as I've said, "Zero Tolerance" has not helped at all. In fact, it's only made things worse!

 

In fact, all it winds up doing is hurting the modders, the one that give the site its real value, all the more. When they get banned, they can't exactly just evade the ban now can they? If they reupload their modss, they get banned for evading the ban (which by the way, is more than permanent. If you do that, even the tiniest chance of being reinstated is shot forever). On top of that, their mods are either completely gone, or if they remain they can't update them anymore.

 

Let's add to this the very convoluted and rather ineffective means of getting unbanned the "right way", and the general arrogance, elitism, corruption, and hypocrisy of the admins that Robin has chosen to moderate his site for him, and it goes without saying that such a thing is to be expected! After all, a site reaps what its administrators sow. If your administration is brutal, arrogant, elitist pricks, then how can one expect their community to be anything but?

 

It should come as no suprise, that Chans and ImageBorrus asside, that one often finds that the communities with the harshest rules are also those with the nastiest users.

 

On top of this, it has to be said that when it comes to this failed "Zero Tollerance" policy the trolls are not the ones with the most to lose, the modders are. If anything, "Zero Tolerance" is nothing but a stab in the back for those who give Nexus its real worth. I mean, apologists can prattle on about how "Robin owns the site, and he can do what he wants with it", which is true, but what they forget is that by itself, his site has no real value! It is the Modders, and the users who download them, but mostly the Modders that give his site its real value. Without them, what would he really have? Apsolutely nothing!

 

Dark may own the site, but without the modders that produce mods, and the users that download them, he has nothing, so that argument is complete nonsense.

 

"But Ryl" I can hear you say. "If you're laying on about the horrid administration as the cause or at the very least fanning the flames of the flamer problem at nexus, certainly you have some better ideas??"

 

Actually, as it so happens, I do.

 

First and foremost, is moving away from this centralized system of "father (doesn't) knows best" in favor of indivualized moderation (or as I like to call it (pre-google) Youtube Administration). That is, rather than solely relying on a cadre of the few to police every single action that the community does, you give more power to the individual modder to police his own comments section. Just like a Youtube video poster is given the power to ignore users, to ban them from his channel, to remove offending comments, etc. This takes a lot of the responsibility away from the central administration, avoiding a lot of the problems that come with "father knows best" administration.

 

Nexus has hinted at moving twoards something like this with the inclusion of "comment voting", but because of thier insane insistance on preserving a system of administration that time and time again has proven to be an abject failure, it has by itself done very little.

 

The second part, which is actually two parts in one, is a proposed change to the ban system itself, in the form of first of a return to timed banned, and the introduction of something I like to call "dynamic bans".

 

Let's return to our earlier example. Let's say instead of banning our trouble flamer for "life", we were instead to ban him for say, a week. Would he still be just as inclined to evade the ban as before?

 

Some particular hotheads might, and alt accounts of this nature could still be dealt with just as harshly (and/or by adding more time to the existing ban). But in this scenario, you now have a fourth option: Simply wait it out, and it'll expire on its own. Given the circumstance, I truly believe that most people (especially if they're like most users that get into trouble there who don't know any better since it's usually, or I should perhaps say, always their first offense.) would simply wait it out in this case.

 

People would be allowed to once again particpate, and there's a much better chance that such action would teach them the lesson that needs to be taught, instead of simply encouraging them to find some way around.

 

This would especially be viable twoards the modders, who have the most to lose from a ban, and I've said before, are the ones who give the nexus its real value.

 

Oh but let's not stop there. Another thing I would propose is the addition and implementation of what I call "Dynamic Bans". That is, rather than simply banning a person from all functions, it only bans them from a select few based on the offense.

 

Back to our example troll, one last time. We'll increase the ban to a month this time. By itself, it would give the person much more incentive to evade, right? Ahhhh, but this time we're only going to ban them from posting comments and/or posting on the forums. However, he can still use his account to download mods, upload them, or to edit the ones he had.

 

Do you still think he'd be inclined to find a way around the ban, especially since now he can "cool down" and think about what he's done without being completely cut off from the community? In my opinion, the ones that would would be very very few indeed!

 

This would be especially helpful to those that post (or in the future want to post) mods. Since they wouldn't be cut off from updating or uploading their mods, and they would continue being a part of the community, instead of being forced to grovel at the feet of a very arrogant and ignorant few, or find some other "community" that simply does not exist.

 

Doing these simple steps would most likely solve at least three quarters of the problems it currently faces.

 

Unfortunately, as I'm sure everyone here is quite aware, Nexus will never implement them. And even if it does, it'll be years in the future where it'll be too little, too late. They simply do not have the aptitude to listen to good advice, they simply lack the humility to see their own failures and admit they are wrong, they lack the foresight to examine this exact problem that's right in front of them.

 

It's like that skit in family guy where Peter and Louis simply ignore the dangerous bull squid in the kitchen. It's utterly insane.

 

So of course, since the nexus isn't going to listen to this sort of advice, and especially not here, that raises the question, why even bother to type up such a ridiculously long analysis, and the answer to that is quite simple.

 

If and when an alternative to Nexus comes into being, either from here or somewhere else, we have to be absolutely sure that we do not follow the same mistakes that they did. That we do not fall into the same trap that TESSource fell into when it became the monster we know as nexus today. That if and when such a large community alternative rises to the challenge, that it takes a different administrative path than the regime it seeks to supplant.

 

[Guest Gandalf]

I don't see the point of all this Nexus hating,i follow their rules and have never been banned,of course i don't hang out there because i don't like walking through troll shit.

 

Nexus isn't a big deal to me i'm a member there just for the mods.

[rylasasin]

I don't see the point of all this Nexus hating' date='i follow their rules and have never been banned,of course i don't hang out there because i don't like walking through troll shit.

 

Nexus isn't a big deal to me i'm a member there just for the mods.

[/quote']

 

Unlike the previous post I'll spare the long answer this time.

 

Long story short: Lot of people on here (and other sites that aren't nexus) were modders or users that made one single mistake (or in some cases, none at all) and were B& Permanently forever without as so much of a warning. And that creates bitterness. Lots of it.

 

There's a lot of other threads on here which could give you a better idea if you look at them. like the "Problem with nexus" thread.

 

I simply thought to give a bit more of a material analysis of why, despite the popular notion that "Zero Tolerance helps gets rid of trolls" it actually does more harm than good and isn't really that effective at doing its stated purpose, as well as why the "father knows best" format doesn't work very well for large community mod-hosting sites like nexus.

[Guest Gandalf]

Ok got ya.I thought it was mainly trolls complaining about being banned.I've had to deal with trolls myself at other sites over,mainly,my mods.I've had some very persistent ones so i know what it's like to have to deal with them.

 

Trolls joining in on other threads certainly won't help the position of those that have been treated unfairly.

 

One thing i'd like to point out before i shut up is that trolling is a lot like(IMO)criminal behavior,most(not all)trolls don't commit one offense and quit.They love to hate,they have to troll because it's part of their conditioning.

[Surenas]

It's not about trolls. If if were only that simple. Everybody that has a different opinion is a troll, right?

In fact it's all about the hard-won right of free speech and the definite loss of it... by force.

[Guest Gandalf]

The OP was about trolls.

[Surenas]

The OP was about trolls.

And the theme is the Nexus.

 

 

[Guest Gandalf]

Actually it's about why trolls get banned AT the Nexus.

[GrimReaper]

It's not about trolls. If if were only that simple. Everybody that has a different opinion is a troll' date=' right?

In fact it's all about the hard-won right of free speech and the definite loss of it... by force.

[/quote']

 

You are exaggerating. Nexus is a private site. They can decide what users they whant to have on this site and what users they don't want to have.

 

This has nothing to do with the freedom of speech because this rule only applies to the relationship between citizen and government. For example, the government can't say "You are not allowed to speak bad about your employer" BUT your actual employer can very well say that and can even punish you if you do so - and it's perfectly legal.

 

Seriously, the obsession about the nexus some people seem to have here is quite disturbing.