3dsMax 2013/2014 (64 Bit) Full Plugin - Updated!

[Vioxsis]

Considering I don't know anything about 3d modeling, I prefer sticking to the best documented tools rather than the latest and greatest. Before finding Nightasy's highly detailed tutorial, I was looking at blender (FOSS and somewhat documented*) and even considering Maya (Industry standard? no documents*). Still, I'll take your suggestion into consideration and once I'm through with his tutorial and I'm satisfied with my familiarity with the 2012 toolings, I'll consider an upgrade to the recent 3ds max before playing around with Blender and Maya

 

* In the context of modding Skyrim assets for complete noobs. I'm sure both Maya and Blender have excellent documentations around otherwise.

I guess that's not much of a problem for me, as i am my own documentation.

 

I don't believe there are any niftools for maya, the nifskope wiki has evidence that they once existed, but would be so out of date now that they would be no use. Nor have i seen any sign that they're being worked on.

 

Blender does though and it got updated a little while ago so it works with newer versions of blender.

Not much a fan of blender though, tried it many times but could never get comfortable with it, everything felt like an up hill struggle.     

 

 

If all you plan on using max for is porting outfits and stuff, then 2012 should serve the purpose well.

 

If you plan on making your own models from scratch and still want to import/export them to skyrim then jump up to 2014.

The improvements to UVW modifier's basic functions is worth it alone.

 

2016 'fixes' 2 things i always hated,

1. the cut tool (actually working how it should, and not making a mess when cutting in to a poly face)

2. the chamfer tool (making it not completely useless by giving the option for a quad chamfer)

I also like its opensubdiv modifier, it came in much more useful then i thought it would.

 

^Those 3 things are what prevent me from using a lower version of max, even though it has no niftools yet.

 

[g96885lurking]

 

I don't believe there are any niftools for maya, the nifskope wiki has evidence that they once existed, but would be so out of date now that they would be no use. Nor have i seen any sign that they're being worked on.

Oh but there is! And quite an active and recent one too! http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65421

 

 

Blender does though and it got updated a little while ago so it works with newer versions of blender.

Not much a fan of blender though, tried it many times but could never get comfortable with it, everything felt like an up hill struggle.     

Yeah there's nothing much for me to say about 3DSMax/Maya vs. Blender that haven't been said regarding Photoshop vs. Gimp.

 

 

If you plan on making your own models from scratch and still want to import/export them to skyrim then jump up to 2014.

The improvements to UVW modifier's basic functions is worth it alone.

 

2016 'fixes' 2 things i always hated,

1. the cut tool (actually working how it should, and not making a mess when cutting in to a poly face)

2. the chamfer tool (making it not completely useless by giving the option for a quad chamfer)

I also like its opensubdiv modifier, it came in much more useful then i thought it would.

 

^Those 3 things are what prevent me from using a lower version of max, even though it has no niftools yet.

Hmm I see. And I was planning on creating my own armors too... Well, if the changes are so meaningful then instead of building up my skill-set on 2012 I might try getting a hold of 2016 as soon as I finish with the tutorials. Thanks for the heads-up!

[Vioxsis]

Oh but there is! And quite an active and recent one too! http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65421

Nice. will have to keep an eye on that.

 

Hmm I see. And I was planning on creating my own armors too... Well, if the changes are so meaningful then instead of building up my skill-set on 2012 I might try getting a hold of 2016 as soon as I finish with the tutorials. Thanks for the heads-up!

You can learn the basics on any version of max, and because the GUI and hot keys stay relatively the same you can practically jump between versions without it slowing you down.

Though it wasn't until i used the unwrap UVW modifier in 2014 that i realised how bad 2012s was working.

But on the surface both look identical so all i learned in 12 crossed over to 14/16.

[g96885lurking]

 

Hmm I see. And I was planning on creating my own armors too... Well, if the changes are so meaningful then instead of building up my skill-set on 2012 I might try getting a hold of 2016 as soon as I finish with the tutorials. Thanks for the heads-up!

You can learn the basics on any version of max, and because the GUI and hot keys stay relatively the same you can practically jump between versions without it slowing you down.

Though it wasn't until i used the unwrap UVW modifier in 2014 that i realised how bad 2012s was working.

But on the surface both look identical so all i learned in 12 crossed over to 14/16.

Oh good so it's not just me... I'm unwrapping a low-poly bra I made and literally none of the automatic features work. The best I can come up with is to use the quick planar map to divide the uvw mesh to top, bottom, front, back, left and right projections by manually selecting polygons and planes... And I'm still not sure how to explode them evenly - although the checkers seems good. I just hope later-on this stuff will sort itself out as I move to more automatic tools which would provide clean maps... eh, I hope

[Acornus]

You split and unwrap the UV's around what seams you want, and then run Relax.

[blabba]

So attempting re-write #4 of the stupid BSdismember code, but I sorta think I know what the major problem was with selections and will fix it in this version of the re-write.
But designing a better cohesive UI is becoming pretty difficult for me.
 
Right now all my head can think of is, that anytime a user wants to add a dismember slot, they click an "add" button and are presented with a pop-up dialog box which gives them the available options for the game they are modding. However, I feel like this is a lot more unnecessary clicks than needed. 

 

 

If you have a more elegant solution than this please let me know, I'll sleep on this design and see if I can't come up with something better, as i'm not keen on the amount of clicking work this is :/

 

edit: I reeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyy hope my fix for the faceselection showing up correctly is also correct......

[Vioxsis]

 

 

 

 

 

^something like that?

 

A list to show what partitions are being applied will speed things up greatly by showing all slots, as well as making it easier to understand what's going on at a glance.

Using a drop down like it already does is still my preferred way of doing it over a pop up box, especially if it still works the same way and lets you change it after its been added and already got polys assigned to it.

 

Also having a settings button that opens a pop up that lets you configure it to what you want will mean less clutter and is something you will only have to mess around in once or twice to have it setup how you like.

 

 

[ousnius]

BSDismemberSkinInstance with its partitions exists only for Fallout 3/NV and Skyrim, so I see no need to separate the options.

NifSkope has only one drop down with all slots for both FO and SK as well, the flags don't collide in any way I think.

http://niftools.sourceforge.net/doc/nif/BSDismemberBodyPartType.html

[blabba]

 

 

 

 

 

^something like that?

 

A list to show what partitions are being applied will speed things up greatly by showing all slots, as well as making it easier to understand what's going on at a glance.

Using a drop down like it already does is still my preferred way of doing it over a pop up box, especially if it still works the same way and lets you change it after its been added and already got polys assigned to it.

 

Also having a settings button that opens a pop up that lets you configure it to what you want will mean less clutter and is something you will only have to mess around in once or twice to have it setup how you like.

That's actually a really good idea. The only drawback is that your settings would only be saved in that Max file. Modifier's can only store their localdata to each session's max file. I'll have to look and see if it's possible to save to some other file like an .ini or something to have the changes applied globally.

 

BSDismemberSkinInstance with its partitions exists only for Fallout 3/NV and Skyrim, so I see no need to separate the options.

NifSkope has only one drop down with all slots for both FO and SK as well, the flags don't collide in any way I think.

http://niftools.sourceforge.net/doc/nif/BSDismemberBodyPartType.html

It's for future setups as well, the current list is really cluttered and a pain to search through for all the stuff I usually want.

I imagine someone who's modding for Skyrim, tends to stay modding for skyrim during any given session and doesn't need to see the extraneous choices.

Also if the next game adds another set of slots, it's going to get pretty annoying.

[ousnius]

BSDismemberSkinInstance with its partitions exists only for Fallout 3/NV and Skyrim, so I see no need to separate the options.

NifSkope has only one drop down with all slots for both FO and SK as well, the flags don't collide in any way I think.

http://niftools.sourceforge.net/doc/nif/BSDismemberBodyPartType.html

It's for future setups as well, the current list is really cluttered and a pain to search through for all the stuff I usually want.

I imagine someone who's modding for Skyrim, tends to stay modding for skyrim during any given session and doesn't need to see the extraneous choices.

Also if the next game adds another set of slots, it's going to get pretty annoying.

 

True. I think it it would be best to have the list automatically show the current game's slots as options, but have a "choose game" drop down anyway, in case there's ever a reason to select the other slots as well. Or maybe even a way of typing the slot number in manually, even if it might not exist, for backwards and forwards compatibility.

[erisarcana]

OMG! Yes thank you blabba. I had lost hope a few months ago after I lost access to my 2012 version of max, but you saved my mods! lol

[Akzyra]

Using the BSdismember modifier crashes my 3dsmax 2014

when I try to select the polygons.

[Jayce Dimmer]

Been using that antiquated plugin for 2012. Nice to see that you've made this doozey for 2014.

 

I'll go give it a whirl, and report back on any quirks and the like I come across.

[firefightert77]

Using the BSdismember modifier crashes my 3dsmax 2014

when I try to select the polygons.

 

Same here! Trying to put a body from MudBox back into Skyrim nif format is the number one reason for the long stream of profanity erupting from my face, and the pile of broken keyboards and mouse parts thrown in the corner of the room. If you look closely, you may find some mouse parts stuck in the wall!

 

 *blabba, you are doing a glorious job!  I only curse YOU for this problem every 3rd time it happens. I ain't mad at cha. I know you are workin your peel off.

 

Any ideas on a cause?

[Akzyra]

That error is the only thing that stops my 5th attempt at a mod of mine as I learned some new stuff.

Any other ways to create the BSdismember modifier?

 

I guess I could boot up my old Win7 and try 3dsmax 2012 but I REALLY hate that version, even for converting to NIF.

[blabba]

The rewrite for the BSDismember modifier was like 90% complete, but due to RL issues, my college starting up and other things. A version with working bsdismember modifier and skinned exporting will be heavily delayed.

[Vorians]

Are bhkRigidBody and bhkCollProxy supposed to be working in 3dsMax 2014 x64? On the Modify tab there are no parameters listed, so I cannot add objects, nor can I change the settings originally selected before placement.

[mytemp]

"(Install instructions are the same as the normal nifplugins for 3dsmax)"

 

Uh, so what are they? Because the links in the readme lead to blank pages, so there's no instructions for me to follow. Is there a reason why we have to go google searching this somewhere else?

[blabba]

Are bhkRigidBody and bhkCollProxy supposed to be working in 3dsMax 2014 x64? On the Modify tab there are no parameters listed, so I cannot add objects, nor can I change the settings originally selected before placement.

 

Collisions are an unknown. I do not believe they ever fully worked in the base plugin. Eham's version fixed some of it at least but it will take me a long time to incorporate those fixes as they are quite extensive (and require the patching of niflibs)

 

"(Install instructions are the same as the normal nifplugins for 3dsmax)"

 

Uh, so what are they? Because the links in the readme lead to blank pages, so there's no instructions for me to follow. Is there a reason why we have to go google searching this somewhere else?

 

Because i'm lazy and do not feel like writing down something that's already been written, been formatted into video guides and many other forms of tutorials.

[tfigment]

Someone pointed me in this general direction so I will post briefly that I've updated my version of the plugin on my github[1] page as well as on the nexus[2].  This alpha was mostly about getting the code to work with MAX 2013-2016 SDKs and then fixing the more egregious errors.  This included the BSDismember crashes which was related to the WIN64 define as far as I can tell.   I will port over some of the fixes I saw in blabba's github but there were not too many.   Ehamloptiran had quite a few more that will take some time to adapt.

bhkRigidBody's do work but not in Skyrim and most people dont understand them.  There was some minor bugs in the ConvexShape which I fixed in my release.  Anyway, CompressedMeshShape objects were not supported from Skyrim and while I have a nominal import it is not done by any means.  My main issue with it is that I dont understand how the Bits per Index and Indices 2 are used at this time and I'm sure there are other issues that would be more apparent when trying to implement.

Only tested with Max 2015 and 2016 but compile other releases so hopefully those will work but no guarantees.

[1] https://github.com/figment/max_nif_plugin/releases
[2] http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/5622/?
 

[Akzyra]

Someone pointed me in this general direction so I will post briefly that I've updated my version of the plugin on my github[1] page as well as on the nexus[2].  This alpha was mostly about getting the code to work with MAX 2013-2016 SDKs and then fixing the more egregious errors.  This included the BSDismember crashes which was related to the WIN64 define as far as I can tell.   I will port over some of the fixes I saw in blabba's github but there were not too many.   Ehamloptiran had quite a few more that will take some time to adapt.

 

bhkRigidBody's do work but not in Skyrim and most people dont understand them.  There was some minor bugs in the ConvexShape which I fixed in my release.  Anyway, CompressedMeshShape objects were not supported from Skyrim and while I have a nominal import it is not done by any means.  My main issue with it is that I dont understand how the Bits per Index and Indices 2 are used at this time and I'm sure there are other issues that would be more apparent when trying to implement.

 

Only tested with Max 2015 and 2016 but compile other releases so hopefully those will work but no guarantees.

 

[1] https://github.com/figment/max_nif_plugin/releases

[2] http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/5622/?

Thank you SOOOOOO much for this. THXXXX

[Vioxsis]

*snip*

Tested it on 2016 sp1.

 

I imported a skeleton and then a body, all worked as expected.

I then tried exporting the body, so selected it and clicked 'export selected' and it gave me the error "could not find skeleton root" or something close to that.

 

I remember getting this error every now and then when exporting helmets, it could be solved by adding one of the spines to the skin modifiers bone list.

Since the body already has the spines listed i made sure it has skin data and was linked to the skeleton in the scene, and it was so i tried adding the root of the skeleton to the list (all of them up to pelvis be sure) but no luck.

 

I then tried exporting the body along with the skeleton, and it worked.

But after examining the exported nif i noticed the bone nodes where all at 0,0,0

If you then import a skeleton and then import the exported mesh you get this.

 

 

 

 

 

I also tried it on a none skinned mesh (a sword) and i had no problems there, it did have a NiMaterialProperty on it witch skyrim does not use (i'm guessing thats because it had a standard blinn applied to it in max) I also noted that no mater what you set in the exporter it always has vertex colour set to 'yes'.

 

Not tested any more then that, i do have a question though, your old version had a problem where it would mess up the vertex normals on export (mostly on high poly meshes) has that been fixed in this version?

 

 

[tfigment]

Thanks for testing.

 

I imported a skeleton and then a body, all worked as expected.

I then tried exporting the body, so selected it and clicked 'export selected' and it gave me the error "could not find skeleton root" or something close to that.

 

 

Were you using the original bethsoft skeleton, if so was it default humanoid or another.

 

I've run into issues with some of the replacement skeletons having names missing or duplicated and other unusual linkages which break assumptions.  Though my brief testing was somewhat working with base skyrim meshes.

 

Did you make other changes or reuse config from another plugin?  Looks like you are importing bones as dummy nodes.

 

I imported a skeleton and then a body, all worked as expected.

I then tried exporting the body, so selected it and clicked 'export selected' and it gave me the error "could not find skeleton root" or something close to that.

 

 

"Failed to find suitable skeleton root" occurs when a mesh has bones that in the skin partition that do not have common ancestors. Given other issues sounds like same root cause.  This an algorithm in niflib I didn't write and its been a while since I really looked at it so I dont remember the rules.

 

 

I remember getting this error every now and then when exporting helmets, it could be solved by adding one of the spines to the skin modifiers bone list.

Since the body already has the spines listed i made sure it has skin data and was linked to the skeleton in the scene, and it was so i tried adding the root of the skeleton to the list (all of them up to pelvis be sure) but no luck.

 

I then tried exporting the body along with the skeleton, and it worked.

But after examining the exported nif i noticed the bone nodes where all at 0,0,0

If you then import a skeleton and then import the exported mesh you get this.

 

 

 

I also tried it on a none skinned mesh (a sword) and i had no problems there, it did have a NiMaterialProperty on it witch skyrim does not use (i'm guessing thats because it had a standard blinn applied to it in max) I also noted that no mater what you set in the exporter it always has vertex colour set to 'yes'.

 

Not tested any more then that, i do have a question though, your old version had a problem where it would mess up the vertex normals on export (mostly on high poly meshes) has that been fixed in this version?

 

 

Collapse transforms and zero transforms will try its best to make the transforms 0,0,0 if meaningful.  I think the previous problems contributed to this.

 

I'd be curious if you tried some of the bethesda vanilla meshes to see if you have same issues.  If so then we know its a workflow difference and I need to understand better what that is.

 

I was mostly testing with Nif Shader and not blinn but I'll make sure I do some extra testing around that.  I did not fix the SLSF flags for other shaders so default SLSF flags are probably not good for those.  I'll take a look at those next.  Nif shader should handle that flag on skyrim exports.  That was at least fixed I think.

 

I made no changes to the normal export process so its probably still broken in the same way.  I dont see that in the Bethesda imported nifs probably because same assumptions during import are applied on export.

 

My testing examples are heavily based on the game models which is not optimal since my experience is real meshes have a lot more tweaks which will break the exporter.  Examples/samples are always welcome to improve the testing process.  Also its been literally years since I've looked at this stuff so I'm a little rusty.  It also means I'm not sure what the real pain points were/are.

 

 

Also if appropriate I can make a new thread for this to avoid filling up blabba's thread with my plugin work.

[blabba]

Thanks for testing.

Collapse transforms and zero transforms will try its best to make the transforms 0,0,0 if meaningful.  I think the previous problems contributed to this.

 

I'd be curious if you tried some of the bethesda vanilla meshes to see if you have same issues.  If so then we know its a workflow difference and I need to understand better what that is.

 

I was mostly testing with Nif Shader and not blinn but I'll make sure I do some extra testing around that.  I did not fix the SLSF flags for other shaders so default SLSF flags are probably not good for those.  I'll take a look at those next.  Nif shader should handle that flag on skyrim exports.  That was at least fixed I think.

 

I made no changes to the normal export process so its probably still broken in the same way.  I dont see that in the Bethesda imported nifs probably because same assumptions during import are applied on export.

 

My testing examples are heavily based on the game models which is not optimal since my experience is real meshes have a lot more tweaks which will break the exporter.  Examples/samples are always welcome to improve the testing process.  Also its been literally years since I've looked at this stuff so I'm a little rusty.  It also means I'm not sure what the real pain points were/are.

 

 

Also if appropriate I can make a new thread for this to avoid filling up blabba's thread with my plugin work.

 

Figment!

 

Glad your back!

 

I actually have some questions for you over the BSDismemberment stuff, I've been in the middle of a huge rewrite of that modifier code (mostly because the original was absolutely broken and not following proper API standards.)

 

Also, do you have any idea about ehamloptiran's work with niflibs? All his collision fixes in the plugin reference changes that I assume he made to niflibs but didn't share publicly.

 

edit: I don't mind you posting here for feedback/changes. If it makes it easier for you to sort that stuff out in your own thread (so you can control/edit OP) that also would work fine.

[Vioxsis]

Thanks for testing.

No problem, thanks for the plugin, for without witch i might have had to use blender..

 

Were you using the original bethsoft skeleton, if so was it default humanoid or another.

 

I've run into issues with some of the replacement skeletons having names missing or duplicated and other unusual linkages which break assumptions.  Though my brief testing was somewhat working with base skyrim meshes.

 

Did you make other changes or reuse config from another plugin?  Looks like you are importing bones as dummy nodes.

I was using XPMSE

LL > http://www.loverslab.com/topic/25971-xp32-maximum-skeleton-extended/

NX > http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/68000/?

 

And other than the human skeleton and body i tried the hagraven and horker that where 100% vanilla and had the same error of failed to find suitable skeleton root, so ended up just using the human body/skeleton and try everyting i could think of on it.

 

As for the config it is the one you packed unedited, well for the first few dozen export attempts.

I edited it after that when i closed max to set the weld settings to 0 in the export section (mesh, UV, normal) So i did not have to keep typing it in.

 

I tried both dummy and standard on the import settings every time i had to import a skeleton to a new scene i would alternate between the two.

I got the same errors and problems no matter what the skeleton was set too.

 

Collapse transforms and zero transforms will try its best to make the transforms 0,0,0 if meaningful.  I think the previous problems contributed to this.

I tried with just CT and then with just ZT and the without either, my first test had them both active.

I got this on export.

 

 

 

 

The skeleton and mesh are vanilla (unpacked a few minutes before).

Their was something odd though one was bellow 0,0,0 and not above.

It occurred to me since on that i had selected the mesh and skeleton and clicked export selected but the other two i just clicked export.

 

So i tested this and when i click export it was above, and when i clicked selected (with everything in the scene selected) it was bellow.

 

 

I'd be curious if you tried some of the bethesda vanilla meshes to see if you have same issues.  If so then we know its a workflow difference and I need to understand better what that is.

As posted above i have tried some vanilla meshes and skeletons as well as some modded meshes and skeletons and even a simple mesh and skeleton done in max just to see if it would export.

 

And for workflow, its like this.

 

Click import locate skeleton and import it making sure the settings are right for it.

Click import again and locate the mesh i want to import and change the settings to what i need making sure it doesn't overwrite the skeleton already in the scene.

 

On export i select the mesh/s i want to export and click export selected pick nif change settings as needed and click ok.

 

My import/export setting rarely change, only when doing something very specific eg; exporting a skeleton or collision data.

 

I was mostly testing with Nif Shader and not blinn but I'll make sure I do some extra testing around that.  I did not fix the SLSF flags for other shaders so default SLSF flags are probably not good for those.  I'll take a look at those next.  Nif shader should handle that flag on skyrim exports.  That was at least fixed I think.

On the body i first exported it was correct, and on the sword it was not, the body had been imported with nif shader but the sword was made in max and i used a standard material set to blinn to link the .psd for texturing.

 

Thats why i assumed it was the blinn since the body was OK.

 

I made no changes to the normal export process so its probably still broken in the same way.  I dont see that in the Bethesda imported nifs probably because same assumptions during import are applied on export.

 

I only ever remember seeing it on export, i could import the messed up normals that where exported and have it import exactly as it was shown in nifskope.

I would then fix them and export again only for them to break and never the same way.

 

I switched to this plugin http://niftools.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3845that fixed the problem i had.

Though i then switched to the TESrenewal so i could ditch 2012 for 2014 and i never had the problem with vertex normals with it. 

 

My testing examples are heavily based on the game models which is not optimal since my experience is real meshes have a lot more tweaks which will break the exporter.  Examples/samples are always welcome to improve the testing process.  Also its been literally years since I've looked at this stuff so I'm a little rusty.  It also means I'm not sure what the real pain points were/are.

 

The meshes i tested where mostly my own, that way i could better judge the export as i know the mesh inside and out.

And when things don't go as expected and i am out of ideas to try i recreated the steps with vanilla assets.

 

Since my problem is with all skinned meshes (as far as i can tell) i don't really have anything to link to.

 

And you don't have to worry i will break your exporter in every way i can just to find its limitations.

So I'll be trying some other stuff when i get the chance to see how it holds up.