Bad Dog's Immersive Creatures - SIC Addon

[Bazzal]

Hey Bad Dog it's been a long time since I last spoke to you. I am just starting Special Edition after having it since it first came out but I have been waiting for mods to update and port to SE.

Are you working on porting your Bad Dog's immersive creatures addon for Immersive creatures for Special Edition? The last 2 days I started trying to convert and port it but holy moly there's so many obstacles it's ridiculous. I just finally was able to get creation kit going but it stops me from making any of the mods active cause to many .esm's are used.
 

If you are doing it then I will stop. I just really want to use your mod for Immersive creatures cause I loved it so much.

[Bad Dog]

I will do it but it will not be fast. I have at least another month to go on the birds mod. I'll likely do that for SSE to learn the issues, then do Yiffy Age. Then do the creatures. So maybe fall before I get to it.

 

The multiple ESM thing is a CK setting. But if you're dealing with that level of issue, yeah, you're starting from scratch. Keep going if you want to get into modding, otherwise--I will get there in time.

[Bazzal]

On 6/12/2018 at 6:27 PM, Bad Dog said:

I will do it but it will not be fast. I have at least another month to go on the birds mod. I'll likely do that for SSE to learn the issues, then do Yiffy Age. Then do the creatures. So maybe fall before I get to it.

 

The multiple ESM thing is a CK setting. But if you're dealing with that level of issue, yeah, you're starting from scratch. Keep going if you want to get into modding, otherwise--I will get there in time.

Cool thank you! I am working with MadMansGun on the issue apparently Pfiffy made a patch in Morenastycritters but I have yet to make it work with Immersive creatures.

 

All being done here. I also tried out YiffyAge on my oldrim game just a couple days ago and its pretty impressive! I am loving it a lot!

 

[MadMansGun]

more like consulting with, i can't do jack shit for SSE.

On 6/12/2018 at 5:27 PM, Bad Dog said:

I will do it but it will not be fast. I have at least another month to go on the birds mod. I'll likely do that for SSE to learn the issues, then do Yiffy Age. Then do the creatures. So maybe fall before I get to it.

 

The multiple ESM thing is a CK setting. But if you're dealing with that level of issue, yeah, you're starting from scratch. Keep going if you want to get into modding, otherwise--I will get there in time.

it looks like some of the work has been done already:

 

[Redwoodtree]

Just a random question that im sure is on my end, but a select few of the creatures have no textures on their junk (Junk is there, but are bright blue/silver. Happens in closed in small areas and large alike. Always blue/silver, not just situational). Specifically skeevers, some wolf breeds (Usually pups), and the hybrid werewolf vampire. All of the rest are fine from what I can tell. Saving, quitting and reloading does not help. Does anyone know of a fix or is it just a load order mess up?

 

Good work on all your mods btw!

[Bad Dog]

Could be that you don't have the latest of everything, especially MNC. Skeevers and pups had problems in the past which the latest MNC fixes, so they aren't fixed in my stuff anymore. You want the SLAL version of MNC. 

[Bad Dog]

I'm gearing up to make an SSE version of this mod and I'm thinking of going entirely off the reservation and not using Creature Framework for it. I've got to re-create the json files with all new form IDs and if I'm going to do that much work maybe now is the time for a whole new mechanism.

 

Issues with CF are: It's another cloak. We've had conversations about how bad is that really and could we reduce the impact, but in the end it's another cloak and there's always some impact. The json files are a bear to deal with. And there's some weird bug that keeps CF from loading properly, sometimes. Ep1c doesn't see it, I see it sometimes, others are bothered a lot. I blame it on the way jContainers handles memory, but that might not be true.

 

So I thought: The Skyrim engine has ways of doing all the things that CF does. Maybe if we lean on those we can come up with a mechanism that has less of an impact. Skyrim already has a mechanism to pick between armor addons on an armor. Conceptually, if we could have a "wolf" race and an "aroused wolf" race and switch between them (like vampirism) that would be all we need. But that would mean a metric fuckton of new races and SL would have to be told about them and other mods that check the races (Untamed?) would break, so that's a non-starter, I think.

 

Here's the scheme instead. Add flaccid peens AND aroused peens to the ARMO form in the patch mod. Flaccid peens use slot 52, which is added to the ARMO form. Aroused peens use 61 which is NOT added to the form. Therefore by default the flaccid peen shows, even if there's a glitch in the system.

 

On a SL sex event or SLA aroused event, swap in the aroused peen. No need for a cloak--let these mods tell you when to do it. 

 

To get hard, we use the SKSE function to change the armor slots on the armor form. Remove 52, add 61. Presto, the aroused peen shows instead. 

 

That works for sensible critters where the peen is a separate mesh. But I believe order matters in the list of addons in an armor. So ordering the list right would mean we can swap in a whole-body aroused mesh that uses slot 32 and 61, bumping the default (flaccid) body.

 

Downside is this would be way less flexible than CF. If you have different mods supplying peens to the same creatures, the way you choose which to use is with the mod order, like any other mod in the universe. Playable races would not be supported. (They could be, I suppose, but everyone uses SOS these days.) 

 

Upside is it's simpler, fewer ways for noobs to screw it up, less likely to break when things go wonky. It does mean you have to override the ARMO skins which might lead to mod conflicts, but I don't actually know a lot of mods that modify skins and would not need a patch, since changing the appearance usually means a new peen.

 

AND it's not incompatible with CF. Perfectly possible to run the two in parallel--CF does the critters it knows about and this mechanism does the others.

 

Thoughts? @MadMansGun, @Ep1cL3w7z, @Blaze69, @CPU?

[Blaze69]

I'd say it could be worth looking into.

 

If the SKSE function for swapping slots in the ARMO record is not too heavy on the engine and doesn't cause hiccups or stuff like that, it could be worth using it instead of the cloak. I also think the only cases in which critters should get their bits out are during SL scenes and maybe with Arousal events (though that last part is better made toggleable), so actually listening (passively) for those events instead of firing up the cloak again and again with the ensuing overhead on Papyrus sounds like a good idea.

 

If the slot assigment is standarized, the script can be compressed into a few lines of "if ARMO HasKeyword *keywordforslotzzz* then swap slots zzz, otherwise swap slots yyy" which shouldn't have much of a hit as long as my point above about the SKSE function is true.

 

I'd still want to hear other thoughts on this, specially from those most affected by it (like MadMansGun), but I'd say I'm up for it.

 

EDIT: thinking about it, there may be a possible downside to it. Is the slot-editing SKSE function instance-specific, or does it affect all copies of that ARMO record? Because if it's the latter, then swapping the slots for a specific critter would mean any other creature in the game using the same skin would also get hard at the same time; that could be a problem with creatures there are msny of together at the same time (like wolves, Draugr or Falmer).

[Bad Dog]

1 hour ago, Blaze69 said:

EDIT: thinking about it, there may be a possible downside to it. Is the slot-editing SKSE function instance-specific, or does it affect all copies of that ARMO record?

This. Gonna need a mechanism that works on the instance. My goal tho was to avoid a giant formlist or an external data store (the json files). Gonna have to think more.

[MadMansGun]

4 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

I'm gearing up to make an SSE version of this mod and I'm thinking of going entirely off the reservation and not using Creature Framework for it. I've got to re-create the json files with all new form IDs and if I'm going to do that much work maybe now is the time for a whole new mechanism.

most of that work is already done in the SSE Conversion Tracking thread.

4 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

The json files are a bear to deal with. And there's some weird bug that keeps CF from loading properly, sometimes. Ep1c doesn't see it, I see it sometimes, others are bothered a lot. I blame it on the way jContainers handles memory, but that might not be true.

A.K.A: the Sexlab Aroused bug, if CF can't read or find it's scripts fast enough it fucks up.

4 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

So I thought: The Skyrim engine has ways of doing all the things that CF does. Maybe if we lean on those we can come up with a mechanism that has less of an impact. Skyrim already has a mechanism to pick between armor addons on an armor. Conceptually, if we could have a "wolf" race and an "aroused wolf" race and switch between them (like vampirism) that would be all we need. But that would mean a metric fuckton of new races and SL would have to be told about them and other mods that check the races (Untamed?) would break, so that's a non-starter, I think.

yea, lets NOT do that.

4 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

Here's the scheme instead. Add flaccid peens AND aroused peens to the ARMO form in the patch mod. Flaccid peens use slot 52, which is added to the ARMO form. Aroused peens use 61 which is NOT added to the form. Therefore by default the flaccid peen shows, even if there's a glitch in the system.

 

On a SL sex event or SLA aroused event, swap in the aroused peen. No need for a cloak--let these mods tell you when to do it. 

 

To get hard, we use the SKSE function to change the armor slots on the armor form. Remove 52, add 61. Presto, the aroused peen shows instead. 

 

That works for sensible critters where the peen is a separate mesh. But I believe order matters in the list of addons in an armor. So ordering the list right would mean we can swap in a whole-body aroused mesh that uses slot 32 and 61, bumping the default (flaccid) body.

what do slots 52 and 61 show up as in TES5Edit? there are things like horse saddles and draugr hair to stay aware of.

4 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

Downside is this would be way less flexible than CF. If you have different mods supplying peens to the same creatures, the way you choose which to use is with the mod order, like any other mod in the universe. Playable races would not be supported. (They could be, I suppose, but everyone uses SOS these days.)

i would hate to lose the hot swapping ability, but at the same time i don't want the cloaking script.

4 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

Upside is it's simpler, fewer ways for noobs to screw it up, less likely to break when things go wonky.

"Oh, God. Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers!" - Serious Sam

people will always find new ways to fuck things up.

4 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

It does mean you have to override the ARMO skins which might lead to mod conflicts, but I don't actually know a lot of mods that modify skins and would not need a patch, since changing the appearance usually means a new peen.

most of the commonly used horse mods do edit the armors.

 

 

3 hours ago, Blaze69 said:

EDIT: thinking about it, there may be a possible downside to it. Is the slot-editing SKSE function instance-specific, or does it affect all copies of that ARMO record? Because if it's the latter, then swapping the slots for a specific critter would mean any other creature in the game using the same skin would also get hard at the same time; that could be a problem with creatures there are msny of together at the same time (like wolves, Draugr or Falmer).

you say that like it's a bad thing ?

[Blaze69]

1 hour ago, MadMansGun said:

what do slots 52 and 61 show up as in TES5Edit? there are things like horse saddles and draugr hair to stay aware of.

What version of xEdit do you use? The latest one uses the actual slot numbers in the data, and I think it has been like that for quite a few versions already.

[Bad Dog]

52 is SOS schlongs. I don't know of anything on critters using that slot.

 

61 is some kind of special effect. The mod I copied to do BDSIC used that, so BDSIC mostly does too. No bad effects I know of. 

 

Really there's two parts to this: One, get rid of the cloak. Catching SL and SLA events is sufficient to equip erections, not to equip flaccid peens. Two, find a simpler way to map skins to peens than json files, which I'd punt on if I weren't suspicious of that code.

[MadMansGun]

1 hour ago, Blaze69 said:

What version of xEdit do you use? The latest one uses the actual slot numbers in the data, and I think it has been like that for quite a few versions already.

3.0.30

[Bad Dog]

Working on the conversion now. 

 

Realized I could dump the formids to a csv, and use Excel to build scripts that do the formID conversion. So at least for now I'm not pursuing the non-CF alternative.

 

[Bad Dog]

That worked. I have json files set up for the new SIC, and a BDIC esp that knows what to do with it. Now I'm running into snags.

 

FNIS is not happy with MNC. I get: 

 

ERROR(76): Could not find a part of the path 'D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition\data\tools\GenerateFNIS_for_Users\temporary_logs'.

 

Right after it says it's reading the More Nasty Critters animations. Anyone seen this? 

 

Also, the first creature I tried (female ancient spriggan) isn't equipping and swapping peens properly. Weirdly, CF seems to put the peen in the creature's inventory but not equip it; using the console I can see it and if I equip it by hand it shows up. Is there something different going on with SSE that CF isn't recognizing? But surely that would have been obvious in the base MNC creatures. @MadMansGun, @Pfiffy, @Ep1cL3w7z, anyone else, if any of those look like obvious known problems let me know.

[cailic]

Hello, been lovin' this mod for a long time now.  I just saw this in the Nexus, Corrupted NIFs Patches,  https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/92777 .    Will This screw with your mod?  And has your mod already fixed any of these issues?

 

 

[Bad Dog]

Dunno what kind of corruption he's cleaning or what tools he's using. I've used something... Nif Healer, maybe... on my nifs and not found problems. I've also found problems in nifs I thought were good. Haven't thought to run them on mods I'm patching, but it's a good idea.

[Bad Dog]

I'm working on the SSE conversion. It's a bit slow because as MMG (I think) reported, default skins don't seem to be doing right and I used them a lot, so I have to fix all that.

 

There's a million creatures to check, and I'm thinking to crowdsource it. I'm going to get a reasonably good version up and I'll post a spreadsheet listing every unique skin. If folks want to help with the testing, they can post their results there.

[Artful Dodger]

Hey,

you say if i use your SkyTEST patch,then i don't need one from Nexus,you mean patch(SkyTEST Immersive Creatures ESP) from mod SkyTEST Integration Project ?

 

It says fixes:

-Stops non adult animals from being aggressive and adds a few factions to a few variants that are missing out. Adds missing templates and fixes bear cub spawns. Gives brown and timber wolves their own faction and follow ai package.

[Bad Dog]

I won't promise it does everything the SkyTest/SIC patch does. But I think I made the pups and cubs unagressive and I added factions for the new types of wolves. That was really the challenge with that patch--not so much fixing conflicting records as extending the SkyTest behavior to SIC animals.

[dasdaman]

 " Bad Dog's Immersive Creatures 3.0 (Too big for LL--get BIDC V3.0 from here) "

 then what's the file in the downloads?

[Bad Dog]

That's what you want. I'll fix the message. LL increased the file size limit.

[MadMansGun]

On 9/29/2018 at 4:56 AM, Bad Dog said:

.

mesh updates for MNCv11.4

canine updates.7z

[gooser]

Bad Dog,

 

I have a BDICV3.0.7z that I downloaded here on 2/2018 - same file size as what you have here. Magic?

[Bad Dog]

No I think that's the latest. Do you think different?