Proposition for better animation selection

[Guest]

Hello,

 

SexLab animation system has a wonderful way to get the animation needed by mods. The "Tags".

With the tags you can grab only a certain type of animations, and filter other also based on tags.

 

Non-SexLab Animation Pack, and Zaz Animation Pack follow the same rule when defining/adding their animations.

 

 

The problem I have is that there is pretty no rule for defining the tags, so very often the animation you get are not exactly what you are expecting for (that is for modders.)

 

 

I think I will do a small plugin mod that will scan the registry of SexLab and tweak the animation tags to have a more useful distribution.

Pretty sure I will add two options:

• preserve old tags (so any original tag will not be touched and this mod should be safe with any existing mod)
• completely overwrite (may have impacts on some existing mods, but may also improve a lot some other mods)

 

I will provide also my rules for adding tags to animations and a few example of how to use the basic SexLab functions to start an animation, with the hope other modders will benefit from this.

 

 

Some examples:

 

 

• MM - for male to male animations (anims not supposed to be played with a female actor)
• FF - for lesbian only animations
• MF - for normal intercourse
• MXF - for threesome animations where at least one male and one female are expected
• XXX - for threesome interchangeable animations
• UseForniture - For animations that include furniture anim objects (mainly from NSAP and Zaz)
• BedSafe - for animations that can be freely played on beds
• Chair - for the animations that use a chair
• Footjob - For animations that include Foot-Job in any stage
• OnlyFootjob - For animations that have only Foot-Job stages
• Oral - All animations that have an oral component
• OnlyOral - For animations that have only oral stages
• Sucking - All animations that have a blowjob component
• OnlySucking - For animations that have only blowjob stages
• Licking - For animations that have only licking oral stages (the target should be a female)
• OnlyLiking - blah, blah, blah. I think you got the point.
• ...

Probably I will do some extra tagging also for the animations involving creatures.

 

 

 

 

 

Let me know what you think, today I don't know if I will do this before or after SexLab 1.6 will be released.

 

 

[Guest]

This is an example of the problem I try to avoid: 

[rydin]

I do agree that expanding the tags will help a lot of modders and content creators to utlize the resources they have, but the most important thing that you said is that there needs to be rules, or at least a guideline. Helping people have more options is great, but if it's a free for all, tagging could become messy if everyone starts adding their own individual ones (which they are welcome to do for personal mods but a system would be better).

[Guest]

Completely agree, @rydin.

 

Probably I will propose a set of rules to do tagging.

 

Maybe by the end of the day (here is 2PM) or tomorrow evening.

[rydin]

Completely agree, @rydin.

 

Probably I will propose a set of rules to do tagging.

 

Maybe by the end of the day (here is 2PM) or tomorrow evening.

 

I think it should be something that can be reviewed and added to, but only if it makes sense to do so. I'd be interested to see your list. It's then something that ideally should be recourced by modders. Maybe ocne we have this settled, I can impliment the changes to NSAP as a trial. I really should look aswell as listing all the tags somewhere for the animations, maybe like a spread sheet or something. But then again those who are going to use them will just use the PSC.

[Content Consumer]

You might want to also check out the Apropos thread... I believe that gooser and Decauk are also looking into this.

 

Uh... they might be doing filenames rather than tags, though, so I might be way off...

[Grine]

Is there any way to make sure this would stop weird animations? I was doing some tests and then a 2 male on 1 female animation happened.

So the two men started a gay-off while the female was taking the dominant position (thrusting, playing with other partner's nipples and etc..) it just seemed out of place.

[Guest]

This was exactly my target @satyra.

Of course the mods have to get the animations by tags and specify both the wanted tags and the unwanted tags.

 

And of course when adding the actors to the animation everybody should remember that the first actor is the "passive" one (usually the female) and then others are the active ones (males in many cases but not always.)

 

[rydin]

Ideally @satyra, the system should allow people to get what they want from the mods, delivery of content that is suited to their desires and needs. But it may take a while to find the perfect solution but we'll work with it. ^^

[D_ManXX2]

are you guys talking about calling an animation by name ?? if you use tags then all the animations under that tag is called in the random picker but maybe you can bypass that by making new calls to exclude certain animations that way only the once you want will be played instead of the full tag. maybe splitting the tag would be better option ??

 

Maybe it will be better suited if ashal expanded the tags that way new tag is created where modders can use to exclude certain types of animations from playing when use the regular tag ??

[rydin]

No @D_ManXX2, I think it's just defining the tag a bit more suited for the animation type, meaning that if someone uses the tags in their mod, they can play content that's more suited for the desired audience. Splitting the tag is probably more along the track what you were thinking. Take @satyra's example for instance.

 

Let me say I want to call all Missionary animations, I would call the tag "Missionary" in the mod. However, if a thorne (object) animation has the Missionary tag, it will play that to, and I have a chooce of getting Missionary on a bed on top of a throne. But let's say I call "MIssionaryNonObject" for example, the thone animation should be "MissionaryObject" so it should get excluded.

 

Now this is just an example as a rull needs to be set up to keep the tagging convention tidy. If it is possible to have a system to call upon a tag, but exluce a certain tag, this could make things easier, but I am unsure if this is possible.

[WaxenFigure]

 

It is already possible to get animations by tag and exclude animations from that list by tag as well.

[Guest]

To @WaxenFigure, of course it is possible. My proposition is to improve the tags used by animation to enable better filtering.

To @rydin, I am not for expanind the tags to an humongous number.

 

For your example, I think I will do something like:

SexLab.GetAnimationsByTags(2, Tags = "Missionary", TagSuppress = "UseForniture")

Let me write my list of tags and rules and then we can better discuss.

 

Another example (very common): I check for a male masturbation anim. If I get it by the normal tags I will get in may cases the female masturbation anim.

My way will be something like:

SexLab.GetAnimationsByTags(1, Tags = "Masturbation,M", TagSuppress = "F")

 

[Guest]

Here my first list of tags. Please comment on it:

 

Gender/Number orientation **************************************************************************************************************

• M
• F
• MM
• MX
• MF
• XF
• FF
• MMM
• MXX
• MXF
• MFF
• FFF
• XXXX
• MMMF
• MFFF
• MMFF

M = Male required

F = Female required

X = both M and F are possible.

 

Intercourse Type **************************************************************************************************************

• Masturbation - used when the animation has at least one masturbation scene (works for both self masturbation and "handjobs")
• Blowjob - Cock/Strapon in a mouth, in at least one scene
• Titsjob - Cock/Strapon between tits, in at least one scene
• Vaginal - Cock/Strapon in a vagina, in at least one scene
• Anal - Cock/Strapon in the ass, in at least one scene
• Footjob - 
• Dildo - At least one scene uses a dildo (any type, generic)
• MasturbationOnly - used when the animation has ONLY masturbation scene (works for both self masturbation and "handjobs") and no other Intercourse Type tags
• BlowjobOnly - used when the animation has ONLY scenes that involve a blowjob, no vaginal, anal, etc.
• TitsjobOnly
• VaginalOnly
• AnalOnly
• FootjobOnly
• DildoOnly
• Licking - used for oral intercourses involving vaginas in at least one scene
• LickingOnly - used for intercourses involving licking vaginas in all scenes (no Vaginal, no Anal, etc.)
• Oral - Aggregation for Blowjob and Licking. Every animation that has Blowjob or Licking should have also this one. The opposite is not true
• OralOnly
• Breastfeeding - Explicit mouth over tits (does not matter if there is a real feeding or not)
• BreastfeedingOnly - 

 

Furniture/AnimObjects **************************************************************************************************************

• UseFurniture - Used when there is a furniture involved as anim object. Any type. But not dildos, whips, et similia.
• Chair - When the furniture involved is a chair/throne
• Throne - When the furniture involved is a chair/throne
• Bed - When a bed is added as animobject (does not mean that the anim is safe to be played on beds, it is the opposite because the bed is added)
• Table
• Pillory
• Pony
• [complete with the list of Zaz animobjects]
• SexTool - when a dildo or a whip, et similia, is used. Can be safe to be played on beds.

 

Characteristics **************************************************************************************************************

• Aggressive - The animation is considered bad and brutal
• Rape - The victim will show some sort of resistence
• Dirty - Something unusual thet many NPCs will not approve (hey we are on LoversLab, we will approve everything...)
• LeadIn
• Foreplay - Used for animations that include petting
• Sexual - A real intercourse is involved
• Threesome - Shortcut for animation where three people are involved
• Orgy - Shortcut for animation where more than three people are involved
• Spanking - Involves some slaps on some asses
• Torture - The animation is some sort of torture (for devious animation, stronger than punishment, e.g. Roasted Pig anim from Zaz)
• Punishment - The animation is some sort of punishment (for devious animation, lighter than punishment, e.g. Spanking from Zaz)
• Creatures - In case creatures are involved (may be useful in future)
• Standing - People are standing, not leaning on the floor/bed (so not appropriate on beds)
• StandingOnly - all stages are supposed to be standing
• BedSafe - Animation can be played on beds.
• BedUnsafe - Animation cannot be played on beds
• Futanari - to support @TDA specific animations filtering

 

[WaxenFigure]

Your Gender/Number Orientation list should be revised to reflect the actor order that is fed to the Framework, females will be first in that ordering.

 

It also needs creature support by the sex of the creature as well, current framework doesn't distinguish creature sex but that is coming soon so it should be a part of any overhaul of the keywords.

 

Intercourse Type is missing the VaginalOrAnal option, a great many of the sex acts could be adjusted to be either way unless you propose to duplicate the animation with a slight adjustment to character positions and thus allow both to be available (not an unreasonable idea).

 

Good start though.

[Guest]

Hello @WaxenFigure, thanks for the constructive feedback.

 

Gender/Number: actually it is supposed to avoid male-only and female-only animations. So the order should not matter too much. Better to limit the huge amount of possible permutations.

 

Creature support: 100% agree. I did not check how it is done yet. But for sure we may need some extra tags.

 

About VaginalAndOral. Not my way. If you have an animation that had both a blowjob and then an anal intercourse both tags will be added to the animation. No need for multiple combined tags. Is for this reason that on intercourse tags there is almost always also the "<intercourse>Only" tag. That will make way more easy to filter the animations by tags.

 

 

I was also thinking about adding a "wehre the cumshot will be" set of tags: CumOral, CumGenitals, CumAnal, CumBreast, CumFeets. And of course we do not need combination, the magical/mystical Ashal gives us the ability to search for tagS not tag.

 

 

Thanks again.

 

Addendum: the tags for the animation' author are fine but useless. They can be included, but I don't think modders are using them to search a specific animation.

 

[Grine]

I think it would be a godsend if not only we have this tagging but also some kind of visual aid for the animation.

For example if I want a specific animation to play at a certain event I want that animation to fit the bill right? So how would I know if animation X is what I am really looking for instead of animation Y? I pretty much have to get in the game, get on sexlab mcm and then somehow test animations one by one to find what I am looking for. Which is tedious work for just wanting to know something.

[Guest]

Hello @satyra, tags are used when you need an animation "more or less like this". If you need a specific animation then you have to get it by id or by name.

 

I am NOT proposing to change the SexLab framework. Just to help modders to find a suitable animation for their needs without getting unexpected animations.

[Ashal]

A couple quick notes:

 

• SexLab 1.60 already has a check for a furniture tag, making the "UseFurniture" tag redundant. at the request of Rydin. Current alpha builds check for the tag "Furniture", and if found those animations are automatically disabled when playing animations on a bed.
  • This is both separate and in addition to the "Standing" tag check that can be enabled/disabled from the SexLab MCM. Furniture animations will always be removed from bed scenes, while Standing animations will only be removed if the user has enabled the option in the MCM.
• SexLab automatically adds "FM / FFM / FMM / FMMM / FFFM / FFFFM / FMMM" and so on, to every animation that gets registered, regardless of what the modder registering the animation has set.
  • These tags are automatically generated during registration, the order of the F, M, or C (for creature animations) is dictated by the order of position creation during registration. The SexLab convention is female->male->creature for order priority. 
  • Typical porn video convention is usually MF rather than FM, so the reverse tags are also added to all vanilla SexLab animations for convenience. However since the reverse ordering is automatically generated (FM), it is the superior order to use when selecting gender specific animations since the reverse (MF) is manually applied.
• Having the tag "Dirty" on an animation will make it count towards the actors "perverted" sexlab diary/journal skill
• Having the tag "Loving" on an animation will make it count towards the actors "purity" sexlab diary/journal skill
• The tag "AggressiveDefault" exists on all animations that default to having the "Aggressive" tag, which is used to restrict aggressive animations from being played during consensual scenes. The "Aggressive" tag is what gets toggled from the sexlab MCM menu, if you wish to forcibly suppress aggressive animations regardless if the player has the restrict aggressive animations option enabled or not, filter by "AggressiveDefault" in addition to "Aggressive"
• I plan on adding a "Tag Viewer" to the SexLab MCM in the upcoming update, so users and modders both can check in game what animations have what tags active. 

[Guest]

Hi @Ashal, thanks for your comments.

 

the M, F, etc. Are not really used to understand the sex positions. At least in V1.59c there is not a real way if a position is expected to be for males or females.

Think about masturbation anims.

 

I am a little bit confused about Aggresive and AggressiveDefault.

 

Kudo for the "Viewer" tag.

[mybrainhurts]

the M, F, etc. Are not really used to understand the sex positions. At least in V1.59c there is not a real way if a position is expected to be for males or females.

 

Neither can there be such a way because there's no a priori reason why one gender only must be permitted in a given slot in a given stage of a given animation. There's no law that says only females can be actor[0], or only males can be actor[2] in a threesome. Throw in the possibility of women wearing strapons, or being futanari, and no overhaul of the tag system is going to cover every (or even most) cases.

 

Modders need to be familiar with the animations they're calling up and assign actors accordingly.  If they even care about the issue to begin with. And use bAllowBed as necessary to avoid situations like the screenshot you posted above. Sometimes calling by tags works, other times calling by name may be necessary to avoid unwanted pairings (MM pairing being the big offender here for most users and those pop up only in some threesomes when two males are used as actors depending on the animation). The best thing to do (imho) would be to add a "block MM pairs" (and "block FF" too I guess for the sake of completeness although most users don't seem to mind the FF as much as the MM) toggle in the SexLab MCM as is done with aggressive and creature animations.

[Guest]

Hello @mybrainhurts.

 

Consider this very common code:

Actor[] positions = new Actor(2)
positions[0] = a
positions[1] = b
sslBaseAnimation[] anims = SexLab.getAnimationsByTags("Blowjob")
SexLab.StartSex(positions, anims)

What animation are you expecting?

 

What about:

sslBaseAnimation[] anims = SexLab.getAnimationsByTags("Oral")

?

 

What about:

sslBaseAnimation[] anims = SexLab.getAnimationsByTags("Masturbation")

?

 

In all cases you may get some not wanted animations. And this because the actual tags defined do not allow to filter correctly.

 

I want to be clear: the "Tag System of SexLab" is awesome.

Are the actual rules of tags that can be improved.

 

 

[mybrainhurts]

CPU, if I was the modder I would already know what animations I want to be available and would take steps to ensure that only the animations I wanted would actually be called up. If I'm not picky (at all ) I'd just leave everything wide open, as in your examples. I guess that's one of the things I was trying to say above. Also that trying to specify all information (tags) for every stage of an animation is tantamount to getting animations by name. I must be missing something though. Because the issues you raise already have solutions either in the system as is right now ("bAllowBed" for example), or will be in SL1.60 with some of the features Ashal mentioned. I do however return to the issue of unwanted gender pairings. That's an open problem that needs a solution, imho, and the solution doesn't seem to be via tags.

[WaxenFigure]

CPU, if I was the modder I would already know what animations I want to be available and would take steps to ensure that only the animations I wanted would actually be called up. If I'm not picky (at all ) I'd just leave everything wide open, as in your examples. I guess that's one of the things I was trying to say above. Also that trying to specify all information (tags) for every stage of an animation is tantamount to getting animations by name. I must be missing something though. Because the issues you raise already have solutions either in the system as is right now ("bAllowBed" for example), or will be in SL1.60 with some of the features Ashal mentioned. I do however return to the issue of unwanted gender pairings. That's an open problem that needs a solution, imho, and the solution doesn't seem to be via tags.

No, hell no, no way in hell! (Err, I'm trying to be emphatic here ).

 

Your assumption is that mods ought limit themselves to using just the animations that were available the last time the mod was updated. That is a ridiculously bad idea and would lead to continual "OMG new animations have been released, when are you going to update your mod?" requests being spammed to all the mod authors.

 

Instead by having a better selection mechanism you could ensure that the animation selected will fit the scenario being played without having to specify a single animation or exact known subset of animations.

[Guest]

My example of a couple of problem I had on two mods I develop:

 

OralOnly: @germanicus, the inspiration, asked for only oral animations (blowjobs and licking), no other sex.

Via the current tagging system I had no way to get the correct animations through tags. I had to get them by id.

That is bad, because then other people were complaining that the NSLA anims were never used.

 

 

Cum Shot Brothel 1: I had in mind to do some scenes involving foot fetish and breast feeding. Sorry no valid tags.

Cum Shot Brothel 2: Getting the animations valid for beds it is almost impossible today. Also if you use the bNoBed property of the getsAnimationByTags, you end having not good animations.

It is not a fault of SexLab. SexLab relies on tags to filter the animations.

 

And when tags are bad then animations are bad.