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Skyrim Prostitution: Why so insulting?


Vyxenne

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Here is an prototype branching for the level of the dialogue:

 

Casual : Dialogue is cheerful, refer to your sex partner by gorgeous, common nickname, etc. but not too intimate and caring like marital branch.

Marital : Dialogue refers to spouse by honey, lover, darling, etc. Affectionate dialogue. That sort of thing.

Reward : For these situation where the sex partner give sex as payment. Not sure how to formulate without being too specific but the dialogue might refer to something like: "I think I deserve such and such for what I've done", etc.

LowEndProstitution :  Could refer to the receiving end as whore and may be more sneering, though not too much. Still the buyer knows he's not buying high class and there is no pretense.

HighEndProstitution : Could refer to the receiving end in a more polite manner e.g. Buyer suggests things instead of demanding. Not referred as "companion" because that would be too confusing. Maybe things like: "I saved my gold for a month for this night"... bla bla bla...

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Here is an prototype branching for the level of the dialogue:

 

Casual : Dialogue is cheerful, refer to your sex partner by gorgeous, common nickname, etc. but not too intimate and caring like marital branch.

Marital : Dialogue refers to spouse by honey, lover, darling, etc. Affectionate dialogue. That sort of thing.

Reward : For these situation where the sex partner give sex as payment. Not sure how to formulate without being too specific but the dialogue might refer to something like: "I think I deserve such and such for what I've done", etc.

LowEndProstitution :  Could refer to the receiving end as whore and may be more sneering, though not too much. Still the buyer knows he's not buying high class and there is no pretense.

HighEndProstitution : Could refer to the receiving end in a more polite manner e.g. Buyer suggests things instead of demanding. Not referred as "companion" because that would be too confusing. Maybe things like: "I saved my gold for a month for this night"... bla bla bla...

 

Yeah I just called them companion for Vyx and nothing else came to mind that fit really. I guess maybe Chosen of Dibella or something.

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I'll go google "TDF" now, because I have no idea what you're talking about there... :-/  Thanks again for your kind offer to help.

 

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/21973-sexlab-tdf-prostitution-and-pimping-the-former-aggressive-prostitution-v2252/

 

Simple mod, does what it does nicely. The dancing is fun. You can turn your prostitutes loose to work on their own after they're trained up. Then they turn up at the most inopportune moments to tell you that either a john wouldn't pay or that he wants a 3-way (being the pimp does not exempt you from taking part if the client wants it).

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Latest version of TDF has implemented a courtesan rank.  The rank is for NPC and the role currently is not as flesh out as you like but the mod is still actively supported by the author and IMHO the most stable of the prostitution mods.  TDF implements prostitution more as an economy mod than pixel porn triggers so thematically it's the closest of making the sex trade a real profession, relatively speaking.  Maybe you can contribute dialogs to make courtesans more prestigious. <snip>

 

Try TDF. The description says it used to be "Aggressive Prostitution" but that doesn't describe it well. I'm also turned off by degrading dialog and this mod hasn't bothered me that way--in fact it seems fairly sex-positive. (E.g. something like, PC: "How'd you like to make us some money with that body?" NPC: "Sure, the gods didn't give me this sexy ass for nothing.")

Well, I asked in my OP if anybody knew of a non-insulting prostitution mod, and you guys came through. I had read the description page for TDF over a year ago, and decided not to try it due to the terminology "Aggressive Prostitution" which immediately made me think it was a BDSM-oriented mod.

 

Based on your recommendations, I installed it tonight and have now played it for a couple of hours, and it is NOT BDSM-oriented as I had believed from the description, and I have NOT encountered the first insulting dialog from anyone!

 

I haven't yet got the hang of recruiting/training but I'll keep at it until I get somebody to a level where they can go on their own and not need me to find clients for them. Also, I haven't seen any hint so far of a "Courtesan" rank, but again, I plan to keep at it until I do.

 

So thanks for the tip, just hopped out here to write this and now I'm going back in-game to see how high I can get my arousal rate... :D

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@nutluck, et al.

 

The two path system sounds interesting and a bit more of a challenge than many others I have seen.  

 

Please let me know if this develops into something, I would be happy to test if needed.

 

Thanks,

-pax

 

Oh I tried for about 6 months to learn to mod and finally admitted defeat. So now I just offer idea's and help test mods and if possible answer questions about mods so the mod authors can focus on working on the mod.

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Latest version of TDF has implemented a courtesan rank.  The rank is for NPC and the role currently is not as flesh out as you like but the mod is still actively supported by the author and IMHO the most stable of the prostitution mods.  TDF implements prostitution more as an economy mod than pixel porn triggers so thematically it's the closest of making the sex trade a real profession, relatively speaking.  Maybe you can contribute dialogs to make courtesans more prestigious. <snip>

 

Try TDF. The description says it used to be "Aggressive Prostitution" but that doesn't describe it well. I'm also turned off by degrading dialog and this mod hasn't bothered me that way--in fact it seems fairly sex-positive. (E.g. something like, PC: "How'd you like to make us some money with that body?" NPC: "Sure, the gods didn't give me this sexy ass for nothing.")

Well, I asked in my OP if anybody knew of a non-insulting prostitution mod, and you guys came through. I had read the description page for TDF over a year ago, and decided not to try it due to the terminology "Aggressive Prostitution" which immediately made me think it was a BDSM-oriented mod.

 

Based on your recommendations, I installed it tonight and have now played it for a couple of hours, and it is NOT BDSM-oriented as I had believed from the description, and I have NOT encountered the first insulting dialog from anyone!

 

I haven't yet got the hang of recruiting/training but I'll keep at it until I get somebody to a level where they can go on their own and not need me to find clients for them. Also, I haven't seen any hint so far of a "Courtesan" rank, but again, I plan to keep at it until I do.

 

So thanks for the tip, just hopped out here to write this and now I'm going back in-game to see how high I can get my arousal rate... :D

 

 

Under NPC prostitution, last sentence "since version 2.2.5.2"...

 

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I'll go google "TDF" now, because I have no idea what you're talking about there... :-/  Thanks again for your kind offer to help.

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/21973-sexlab-tdf-prostitution-and-pimping-the-former-aggressive-prostitution-v2252/

 

Simple mod, does what it does nicely. The dancing is fun. You can turn your prostitutes loose to work on their own after they're trained up. Then they turn up at the most inopportune moments to tell you that either a john wouldn't pay or that he wants a 3-way (being the pimp does not exempt you from taking part if the client wants it).

Thanks! I installed TDF last night and I'm working now to get 3 girls trained up in Solitude. The dancing is great, I got all 3 dancing in the Winking Skeever and made some pretty good money- I just wish there was some way to get ME to dance too.

 

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I'll go google "TDF" now, because I have no idea what you're talking about there... :-/  Thanks again for your kind offer to help.

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/21973-sexlab-tdf-prostitution-and-pimping-the-former-aggressive-prostitution-v2252/

 

Simple mod, does what it does nicely. The dancing is fun. You can turn your prostitutes loose to work on their own after they're trained up. Then they turn up at the most inopportune moments to tell you that either a john wouldn't pay or that he wants a 3-way (being the pimp does not exempt you from taking part if the client wants it).

Thanks! I installed TDF last night and I'm working now to get 3 girls trained up in Solitude. The dancing is great, I got all 3 dancing in the Winking Skeever and made some pretty good money- I just wish there was some way to get ME to dance too.

 

 

 

You should have a spell called TDF Player Dance.

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Latest version of TDF has implemented a courtesan rank.  The rank is for NPC and the role currently is not as flesh out as you like but the mod is still actively supported by the author and IMHO the most stable of the prostitution mods.  TDF implements prostitution more as an economy mod than pixel porn triggers so thematically it's the closest of making the sex trade a real profession, relatively speaking.  Maybe you can contribute dialogs to make courtesans more prestigious. <snip>

 

Try TDF. The description says it used to be "Aggressive Prostitution" but that doesn't describe it well. I'm also turned off by degrading dialog and this mod hasn't bothered me that way--in fact it seems fairly sex-positive. (E.g. something like, PC: "How'd you like to make us some money with that body?" NPC: "Sure, the gods didn't give me this sexy ass for nothing.")

Well, I asked in my OP if anybody knew of a non-insulting prostitution mod, and you guys came through. I had read the description page for TDF over a year ago, and decided not to try it due to the terminology "Aggressive Prostitution" which immediately made me think it was a BDSM-oriented mod.

 

Based on your recommendations, I installed it tonight and have now played it for a couple of hours, and it is NOT BDSM-oriented as I had believed from the description, and I have NOT encountered the first insulting dialog from anyone!

 

I haven't yet got the hang of recruiting/training but I'll keep at it until I get somebody to a level where they can go on their own and not need me to find clients for them. Also, I haven't seen any hint so far of a "Courtesan" rank, but again, I plan to keep at it until I do.

 

So thanks for the tip, just hopped out here to write this and now I'm going back in-game to see how high I can get my arousal rate... :D

 

 

Hi Vyxenne!  Sounds like we're a lot alike in RP tastes, although I will admit that when I'm in the mood to get down and nasty,  I do like me some verbal degradation.  Just not all the time, and I don't care much for being caged or leashed when it goes too long and interferes with my freedom of movement.   In RL, I tend towards the submissive side and was even told once that I'm a "bedroom sub", meaning not full time.  Okie dokie, I'm ok with that :)

 

I will second your suggestion for a "courtesan" mod.  I envision it as involving the hiring of an agent (pimp) who arranges clients for you (as quests).  The fees would be exorbitant, of course, to pay for the hours I've spent in RaceMenu making my girl sexy!  And, of course, as an expensive call girl or courtesan, the "dates" ought to be more oriented towards a dinner and a mansion's bedroom than bedrolls in the dark alleys of Solitude. 

 

I use the TDF mod, and haven't noticed much in the way of insults.  It has other problems, though, some minor and others larger.  With high speech I'm able to succeed most of the time, though my SexLab ranking is still hovering around "Journeyman", with a Master's in "Foreplay" :)

 

It's always bugged me that my fee for sex has only rarely turned away a client.  Yesterday I did all 4 of the Greybeards and charged them about 270g each, and they didn't blink despite being ascetic monks sworn to poverty.  Then this morning I was hired by a beggar in Solitude who was scrounging for 1g, and he willingly paid me 270g as well.  My speech is 100, plus a necklace of +speech, which makes sense but seriously? Monks and beggars can afford my body?

 

To take this farther, I want to be hired by a rich man and made the center of the evening's entertainment for his friends.  But that may be another mod :)

 

LOVE Firefly, I wish they'd do another movie!  Though Morena went on to other projects, including Showtime's "Homeland", she remains one of my favorite actresses.

 

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As stupid would that sound only mod that fits your ideas is animal mansion. Someone even said it that it is lil bit ridiculous that there is no mod that would let you become a prostitute without everyone treating you like garbage and the only one there is is focused on bestiality.

 

But there is good chance that APPS mod (not finished yet) would have a lot to offer in this field.

 

To create a mod that you have in mind:

Most important IMO would be some interesting story. To make such no CK skills are needed.

Some brothel would be needed. A story of who created that brothel and why. Why are you working there. What are your goals. etc.

"For money" isn't exactly convincing in skyrim as money is mostly useless.

Personally if i would be up for working on such mod i would try to make a story of a brothel mistress that tries to gain influence in Skyrim by offering sexual favors to all kind of Skyrims nobility.

Starting from some poor whorehouse which would over time grow and turn into luxurious club for the richest only.

But well, there is little chance that i would be working on something like this personally (busy  ;) )

 

If there would be a good idea then it would be easier to catch interest of some modder that would be willing to make it happen.

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As stupid would that sound only mod that fits your ideas is animal mansion. Someone even said it that it is lil bit ridiculous that there is no mod that would let you become a prostitute without everyone treating you like garbage and the only one there is is focused on bestiality.

 

But there is good chance that APPS mod (not finished yet) would have a lot to offer in this field.

 

To create a mod that you have in mind:

Most important IMO would be some interesting story. To make such no CK skills are needed.

Some brothel would be needed. A story of who created that brothel and why. Why are you working there. What are your goals. etc.

"For money" isn't exactly convincing in skyrim as money is mostly useless.

Personally if i would be up for working on such mod i would try to make a story of a brothel mistress that tries to gain influence in Skyrim by offering sexual favors to all kind of Skyrims nobility.

Starting from some poor whorehouse which would over time grow and turn into luxurious club for the richest only.

But well, there is little chance that i would be working on something like this personally (busy  ;) )

 

If there would be a good idea then it would be easier to catch interest of some modder that would be willing to make it happen.

 

I'm still trying to get animal mansion to work (creature animations seem to be borked for me at moment).

 

My current character has been RPing as a poor waif, abandoned in the wilderness and trying to make her way by selling her body.  That worked fine for the first few thousand gold, but once she could afford (or loot) some equipment, it feels to me like she's just whoring herself out for the fun of it.

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that :)

 

I like your idea, but for the purposes of a high-end courtesan I don't think a brothel is needed.  The pimp would contact the PC either through a courier or by the PC returning to the pimp for the next job.  If Skyrim had cell phones, that would be the real solution!

 

I love the idea of doing this, not just for the money (though that would be an RP feature) as for the prestige with Skyrim nobility.   I've already managed to seduce several Jarls myself, but those aligned closely with Imperials threaten to arrest me when I proposition them.  I'd love to get a quest to bed all of the Jarls in Skyrim at their request, without fearing the guards.  The reward at the end of that quest might be something like a major boost in all factions or something, either to compensate for my thieving habits or to let me help arrange a truce in the civil war, etc. 

History is rife with influential and powerful courtesans.  I like where this is going.  All we need now is a good modder to step up! :)

 

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I'll go google "TDF" now, because I have no idea what you're talking about there... :-/  Thanks again for your kind offer to help.

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/21973-sexlab-tdf-prostitution-and-pimping-the-former-aggressive-prostitution-v2252/

 

Simple mod, does what it does nicely. The dancing is fun. You can turn your prostitutes loose to work on their own after they're trained up. Then they turn up at the most inopportune moments to tell you that either a john wouldn't pay or that he wants a 3-way (being the pimp does not exempt you from taking part if the client wants it).

Thanks! I installed TDF last night and I'm working now to get 3 girls trained up in Solitude. The dancing is great, I got all 3 dancing in the Winking Skeever and made some pretty good money- I just wish there was some way to get ME to dance too.

 

 

 

You should have a spell called TDF Player Dance.

 

Oh. Em. Gee! I can dance! Thank you!!!!!!! :heart:

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You should have a spell called TDF Player Dance.

 

Oh. Em. Gee! I can dance! Thank you!!!!!!! :heart:

 

 

Another mod that works well with TDF is SexLab Approach. -> http://www.loverslab.com/topic/30531-sexlab-approach-27-8-2014/

It allows other NPC's to approach you and request sexytime, based on a few criteria.

 

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I'll go google "TDF" now, because I have no idea what you're talking about there... :-/  Thanks again for your kind offer to help.

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/21973-sexlab-tdf-prostitution-and-pimping-the-former-aggressive-prostitution-v2252/

 

Simple mod, does what it does nicely. The dancing is fun. You can turn your prostitutes loose to work on their own after they're trained up. Then they turn up at the most inopportune moments to tell you that either a john wouldn't pay or that he wants a 3-way (being the pimp does not exempt you from taking part if the client wants it).

Thanks! I installed TDF last night and I'm working now to get 3 girls trained up in Solitude. The dancing is great, I got all 3 dancing in the Winking Skeever and made some pretty good money- I just wish there was some way to get ME to dance too.

 

 

 

Was going to suggest TDF myself but it seems I'm a bit late, that mod can get interesting when run with a mod like the bathing beuties bath house, I had all of the girls there turning out a nice profit, but I found the combination somewhat inconvenient so I uninstalled it. I rememeber a long time ago someone had started working on a mod in which you could become a prostitute and eventually purchase, upgrade, and run a brothel on the lower walk way in Riften... sadly the mod author has given up on it. I think the mod was called "Manage your Brothel" or something like that. I have hoped for a long time that someone would pick up where he/she left off, but I doubt anyone will pick up the concept.

 

Anyway just bringing that back into the light.

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>Was going to suggest TDF myself but it seems I'm a bit late, that mod can get interesting when run with a mod like the bathing beuties bath house, I had all of the girls there turning out a nice profit, but I found the combination somewhat inconvenient so I uninstalled it. I rememeber a long time ago someone had started working on a mod in which you could become a prostitute and eventually purchase, upgrade, and run a brothel on the lower walk way in Riften... sadly the mod author has given up on it. I think the mod was called "Manage your Brothel" or something like that. I have hoped for a long time that someone would pick up where he/she left off, but I doubt anyone will pick up the concept.<

 

I like TDF, although I find myself going OCD in cities, haunting the local inns trying to get new clients.  After a while it loses its excitement.

 

Skyrim was released in 2011.  As games go, that's pretty long in the tooth although a game as moddable as Skyrim has a longer-lived player community than the one-off action stuff.

 

But I have to ask if there's a sense around here that maybe the sex mod business for Skyrim has already peaked and begun its decline?  I don't want that to happen -- especially since I spent 4 years thinking I wasn't interested in, nor could I manage to get them to run, interesting sex mods.  But I see a lot of threads on LL that go back to release and have died a normal thread death long since.

 

Don't MAKE me try modding in Skyrim!    :s  My attempts with Morrowind were of mixed success and I remember it taking a lot of the fun out of that game! 

 

 

 

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>Was going to suggest TDF myself but it seems I'm a bit late, that mod can get interesting when run with a mod like the bathing beuties bath house, I had all of the girls there turning out a nice profit, but I found the combination somewhat inconvenient so I uninstalled it. I rememeber a long time ago someone had started working on a mod in which you could become a prostitute and eventually purchase, upgrade, and run a brothel on the lower walk way in Riften... sadly the mod author has given up on it. I think the mod was called "Manage your Brothel" or something like that. I have hoped for a long time that someone would pick up where he/she left off, but I doubt anyone will pick up the concept.<

 

I like TDF, although I find myself going OCD in cities, haunting the local inns trying to get new clients.  After a while it loses its excitement.

 

Skyrim was released in 2011.  As games go, that's pretty long in the tooth although a game as moddable as Skyrim has a longer-lived player community than the one-off action stuff.

 

But I have to ask if there's a sense around here that maybe the sex mod business for Skyrim has already peaked and begun its decline?  I don't want that to happen -- especially since I spent 4 years thinking I wasn't interested in, nor could I manage to get them to run, interesting sex mods.  But I see a lot of threads on LL that go back to release and have died a normal thread death long since.

 

Don't MAKE me try modding in Skyrim!    :s  My attempts with Morrowind were of mixed success and I remember it taking a lot of the fun out of that game! 

 

 

I find modding to be most fun when it actually works without too much trouble. otherwise it's just frustrating, and it does suck all the fun out of it. for that reason I tend to stick to what I either know I can succeed at, or what I'm pretty confident I can figure out. Unfortuantely programming isn't one of those things, otherwise I would probably pick up that brothel concept myself.  :P

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<snip>

HighEndProstitution : Could refer to the receiving end in a more polite manner e.g. Buyer suggests things instead of demanding. Not referred as "companion" because that would be too confusing. Maybe things like: "I saved my gold for a month for this night"... bla bla bla...

 

Firstly, welcome back from wherever you disappeared to when you dropped RP!

 

Secondly, it's strange that you would say "I saved my gold for a month for this night" because last night for the first time, I encountered an almost-identical NPC comment to me in TDF!

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Maybe this is done to emphasize the fact that prostitution isn't exactly a job having a nice working atmosphere? Yes, the job is degrading, face it. Yes, it would make sense to add some nice-guy type client  dialogues since the lines become too repetitive. But this is a medieval setting, and it was even worse time for prostitutes than it is today, even in 19th century Victorian society they were treated like kind of subhuman beings. Expecting everyone in medieval society treating prostitutes with respect is a bit of too far-fetched, I think.

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While I find the question of whether or not prostitution is inherently "degrading" contentious and poorly-formed at best (is it any more degrading than - say -  being an assassin or mercenary who kills and maims for money?) I concur that for a society like Skyrim, prostitution probably isn't well received.  There is a strong and pretty consistent correlation between living in an honor-bound, violence prone society full of Blood Knights, and having a...shall we say, "complicated" view on sexuality.  If anything, Svana's opinion on her aunt's casual and consensual relations with a relative handful of men speaks volumes about Skyrim's general expectations of female sexual behavior - to say nothing when such indiscretions are multiplied several fold and involve the exchange of money for "services."

 

That said, I do agree with the sentiments of the OP - on the grounds of general sex negativity, if not prostitution specifically.  I play and tweak sex mods on all my games in order to inject that "little something" that seems to be ignored or dismissed in the wider world, be it in game design or general attitudes.  I tend to avoid the radically bondage/humiliation oriented stuff, and the ones I do add for the sake of immersion and/or admiration (i.e. SD+) tend to affect everyone (cause yes, men do often get raped, especially in combat settings).

 

This thread actually re-sparked an interest I had a waaay back for creating a guild for prostitutes - sort of like Sexlab Guild (which if it hasn't been mentioned already, you should give a shot - nice mod with no humiliation play as far as I see), but more complex, with a branching quest line, interactive NPCs, and skill increases and powers bestowed as you rise through the ranks that not only make snagging and pleasing clients easier, but also makes role-playing as an actual prostitute feasible.  Unfortunately, my real life work grants me little time to make anything other than minor tweaks and plugins for my own private use.  But maybe some day...

 

P.S. The Middle Ages actually had some surprisingly lax attitudes regarding sex, including prostitution.  And the Victorians were...well, they were the Victorians, and frankly no one was like the Victorians.  Hell, the PURITANS were not like the Victorians.  They tempered sexual prudishness to a fine steel the likes of which no society could ever match, save for the crass hypocrisies of certain fundamentalist groups.

 

P.P.S. While I agree mostly with the OP, I do take a slight offense to the insinuation that bondage/humiliation/degradation is a "guy thing," or that "even some guys" aren't down with it; most people, male or female, aren't about that life, and there are many women who really get off on it.

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