Weird Jagged Breast shape with HDT?

[Ginge620]

Little bit of an issue regarding HDT Physics. I get this weird jagged breast when using HDT Physics.

 

Heres a picture of what it mean with HDT physics enabled with modified CBBE TBBP body.

 

 

 

Heres a picture without HDT physics enable with modified CBBE body.

 

 

 

Anyone know whats up? Have i installed something wrong?

The CBBE body i use is modified by myself wth Calientes tools, i tried the default body and it makes no difference if anything i becomes more prominent.

 

Im using HDT Physics 14.28 + HDT High heels system.

I also usually use xp32 and BB's hair physics mods however in those screens those mods were disabled.

Ive also tried different XML files which also made no difference to the shape.

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

[ousnius]

Can you try the "CBBE Body HDT" that comes with BodySlide and compare it?

[Ginge620]

Can you try the "CBBE Body HDT" that comes with BodySlide and compare it?

What is the difference between "CBBE Body TBBP" and "CBBE Body HDT"?

 

Made no difference to the shape (screenshot below) Got a slightly better angle too.

 

 

 

[blabba]

It's just bad skinning.

 

You can try smoothing it out using OS (Though I suggest using 3dsmax or blender so you can actually view the weight values)

[ousnius]

 

Can you try the "CBBE Body HDT" that comes with BodySlide and compare it?

What is the difference between "CBBE Body TBBP" and "CBBE Body HDT"?

 

Made no difference to the shape (screenshot below) Got a slightly better angle too.

 

 SAME.jpg

 

 

 

HDT one has slightly different weights and has a belly bone (that's only used if you have mods that make use of it, or an HDT XML).

 

Are you using Groovtama's XPMS Extended v2.14+ skeleton already? It's more or less a requirement when using HDT PE.

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/26800/- First file.

[Ginge620]

 

 

Can you try the "CBBE Body HDT" that comes with BodySlide and compare it?

What is the difference between "CBBE Body TBBP" and "CBBE Body HDT"?

 

Made no difference to the shape (screenshot below) Got a slightly better angle too.

 

 SAME.jpg

 

 

 

HDT one has slightly different weights and has a belly bone (that's only used if you have mods that make use of it, or an HDT XML).

 

Are you using Groovtama's XPMS Extended v2.14+ skeleton already? It's more or less a requirement when using HDT PE.

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/26800/- First file.

 

Heres a picture of my Mod Organiser.

 

 

 

I am using Groovtama's v2.14. Quick question regarding that, when i install it should i be using the BBP option? also what does it do. I know BBP is Breast and Butt bouce but what does that option specifically do?

I haven't select the BBP option i just clicked the standard one.

 

Just a note, the "CBBE Normal TBBP" mod at the bottom is either the TBBP or HDT body.

[Ginge620]

It's just bad skinning.

 

You can try smoothing it out using OS (Though I suggest using 3dsmax or blender so you can actually view the weight values)

Ill give it a shot. I haven't had much experience with 3dsmax but ill try and figure it out.

[ousnius]

 

 

 

 

Can you try the "CBBE Body HDT" that comes with BodySlide and compare it?

What is the difference between "CBBE Body TBBP" and "CBBE Body HDT"?

 

Made no difference to the shape (screenshot below) Got a slightly better angle too.

 

 SAME.jpg

 

 

 

HDT one has slightly different weights and has a belly bone (that's only used if you have mods that make use of it, or an HDT XML).

 

Are you using Groovtama's XPMS Extended v2.14+ skeleton already? It's more or less a requirement when using HDT PE.

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/26800/- First file.

 

 

Heres a picture of my Mod Organiser.

 

 mods.PNG

 

I am using Groovtama's v2.14. Quick question regarding that, when i install it should i be using the BBP option? also what does it do. I know BBP is Breast and Butt bouce but what does that option specifically do?

I haven't select the BBP option i just clicked the standard one.

 

Just a note, the "CBBE Normal TBBP" mod at the bottom is either the TBBP or HDT body.

 

 

You don't need the XPMS Maximum Skeleton anymore if you have Groovtama's installed. The BBP option enables animation-driven physics. You shouldn't select that option when you use HDT Physics.

 

What is the CBBE Normal TBBP mod for? The latest BodySlide comes with both TBBP and HDT bodies. Do you use the latest and tried removing the "CBBE Normal TBBP" and building again?

[Ginge620]

 

 

 

 

 

Can you try the "CBBE Body HDT" that comes with BodySlide and compare it?

What is the difference between "CBBE Body TBBP" and "CBBE Body HDT"?

 

Made no difference to the shape (screenshot below) Got a slightly better angle too.

 

 SAME.jpg

 

 

 

HDT one has slightly different weights and has a belly bone (that's only used if you have mods that make use of it, or an HDT XML).

 

Are you using Groovtama's XPMS Extended v2.14+ skeleton already? It's more or less a requirement when using HDT PE.

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/26800/- First file.

 

 

Heres a picture of my Mod Organiser.

 

 mods.PNG

 

I am using Groovtama's v2.14. Quick question regarding that, when i install it should i be using the BBP option? also what does it do. I know BBP is Breast and Butt bouce but what does that option specifically do?

I haven't select the BBP option i just clicked the standard one.

 

Just a note, the "CBBE Normal TBBP" mod at the bottom is either the TBBP or HDT body.

 

 

You don't need the XPMS Maximum Skeleton anymore if you have Groovtama's installed. The BBP option enables animation-driven physics. You shouldn't select that option when you use HDT Physics.

 

What is the CBBE Normal TBBP mod for? The latest BodySlide comes with both TBBP and HDT bodies. Do you use the latest and tried removing the "CBBE Normal TBBP" and building again?

 

Heres a better shot i changed the naming to make it more understandable.

 

 

 

 

 

The 3 "CBBE Normal ______" mods/files are my modified CBBE body meshes i tweaked in Calientes Bodyslide and then exported in separate files. This way depending on which one a activate will overwrite the standard body mesh from CBBE mod further up the load order.

[Ginge620]

It's just bad skinning.

 

You can try smoothing it out using OS (Though I suggest using 3dsmax or blender so you can actually view the weight values)

So i opened up the scale 1 body in 3ds max. Looking at it i'm not sure what i'm supposed to be smoothing. The jaggedness that appears in Skyrim with HDT does not appear in 3ds max. Heres a screenshot of what i'm looking at.

 

 

 

 

[blabba]

The jaggedness happens when you move the breast bones.

 

So look for the Rbreast and LBreast bones and move them around and you should be somewhat able to replicate the condition under which you see the jagginess.

 

Then under skin modifier -> edit envelopes -> Rbreast/Lbreast

 

You should be able to see the weights for those bones and use the default brush settings to smooth them out.

 

When your all done, remember to position the skeleton back to default reference pose and only then export back out! 

[Ginge620]

 

 

 

 

 

Can you try the "CBBE Body HDT" that comes with BodySlide and compare it?

What is the difference between "CBBE Body TBBP" and "CBBE Body HDT"?

 

Made no difference to the shape (screenshot below) Got a slightly better angle too.

 

 SAME.jpg

 

 

 

HDT one has slightly different weights and has a belly bone (that's only used if you have mods that make use of it, or an HDT XML).

 

Are you using Groovtama's XPMS Extended v2.14+ skeleton already? It's more or less a requirement when using HDT PE.

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/26800/- First file.

 

 

Heres a picture of my Mod Organiser.

 

 mods.PNG

 

I am using Groovtama's v2.14. Quick question regarding that, when i install it should i be using the BBP option? also what does it do. I know BBP is Breast and Butt bouce but what does that option specifically do?

I haven't select the BBP option i just clicked the standard one.

 

Just a note, the "CBBE Normal TBBP" mod at the bottom is either the TBBP or HDT body.

 

 

You don't need the XPMS Maximum Skeleton anymore if you have Groovtama's installed. The BBP option enables animation-driven physics. You shouldn't select that option when you use HDT Physics.

 

Made some progress!

 

So i got rid of the standard XPMS and now i just have Groovtama's XPMS with the BBP option.

 

I did a bit of testing and found what looks like an issue with the TBBP meshes from CBBE?

 

Here's some screen shots.

 

So this is normal with no HDT or BP

 

 

See how there is no jagged issue and the shape is correct, just like in bodySlide. No animation or HDT for breasts or bum

 

This is the BBP body mesh (same slider preset)  

 

 

See how there is still no jagged issue and the shape is slightly more sagged but smoother. Animation/HDT for breasts only

 

This is the TBBP body mesh (same slider preset)

 

 

See how there is now a jagged edge and because of that the shape is slightly deformed. Animation/HDT for both breasts and bum

 

This is the HDT body mesh (same slider preset)

 

 

See how there is no longer a jagged edge like in the TBBP body mesh but the shape is slight more pushed up. Animation/HDT for both breasts and bum however there not right see below.

 

This is the HDT body mesh from above when stood still

 

 

Breast shape is slightly more pushed like i said earlier but the bum looks pretty good.

 

Now this is the HDT body mesh when you start walking

 

 

The bum gets squashed and deformed and breasts dont look right either. This doesnt happen on the TBBP or BPP (No bum animation in BBP anyway)

 

Just some food for thought. I just want to get the smoothness of the BBP mesh + bum jiggle + the shape of the normal mesh.

I think blabba is right with needing to smooth out the skinning (still dont fully understand that term) in 3ds max. Going to try that now.

[ousnius]

This doesn't happen to me with the CBBE Body HDT meshes. You must be doing something wrong in your Mod Organizer setup, or some files overwrite the wrong ones. Did you try the default HDT XML that comes with 14.28 yet?

 

Your body of choice would be the CBBE Body HDT with a bit of gravity applied in BodySlide to create the look the BBP one has.

 

You also don't need the BBP option of Groovtama's skeleton. Using physics animations together with the physics of HDT PE isn't really recommended.

[Ginge620]

The jaggedness happens when you move the breast bones.

 

So look for the Rbreast and LBreast bones and move them around and you should be somewhat able to replicate the condition under which you see the jagginess.

 

Then under skin modifier -> edit envelopes -> Rbreast/Lbreast

 

You should be able to see the weights for those bones and use the default brush settings to smooth them out.

 

When your all done, remember to position the skeleton back to default reference pose and only then export back out! 

Followed this to help me with 3ds, its one of your topics http://www.loverslab.com/topic/34798-fixing-skeleton-deformations-crushedtorpedo-breasts-etc/

Just 2 questions. When you say "Load your body mesh (femalebody.nif)" do you mean either femalebody_0.nif or femalebody_1.nif or is there a way to combine the 2 into 1?

Also at step 6 i cant see advanced properties.

Thanks

[blabba]

The above guide won't help you smooth weights though.

 

It only fixes the skinning deforms, which is not the case here. (AKA You don't need the advanced property field stuff. But if you scroll down in that side window you'll see it in case you need it for future reference)

 

And yea for the smooth weight thing you'll need to edit both the _1 and _0 .nif with the same edits.

 

A quick shortcut to this is to import the _1.nif add a morpher modifier between skin modifier and editable mesh on the stack.

Import your _0.nif in the same scene , transform it to an editable poly or editable mesh object.

 

Then under the morpher modifier in your _1.nif select a channel and press add target, and select your _0.nif

 

You can then delete the _0.nif and just do all your edits on the _1.nif. When done, you need to export the _1.nif twice, once without the morpher modifier and another time with the modifier applied (or the channel put to 100%) and that will be your new _0.nif

[Ginge620]

This doesn't happen to me with the CBBE Body HDT meshes. You must be doing something wrong in your Mod Organizer setup, or some files overwrite the wrong ones. Did you try the default HDT XML that comes with 14.28 yet?

 

Your body of choice would be the CBBE Body HDT with a bit of gravity applied in BodySlide to create the look the BBP one has.

 

You also don't need the BBP option of Groovtama's skeleton. Using physics animations together with the physics of HDT PE isn't really recommended.

Ok, chose normal skeleton rig map option when installing Groovtama's XPMS and now when using the CBBE HDT body meshes movement is fine, no more crushed bum of deformed breasts when walking.

 

When stood normal there's also no jagged edge either see screenshot

 

 

Which is better, but when switch to a more exaggerated pose from the pretty motion mod this happens

 

 

I think its down to what blabba said, needing to smooth out something, so ill look into that.

[Ginge620]

The jaggedness happens when you move the breast bones.

 

So look for the Rbreast and LBreast bones and move them around and you should be somewhat able to replicate the condition under which you see the jagginess.

 

Then under skin modifier -> edit envelopes -> Rbreast/Lbreast

 

You should be able to see the weights for those bones and use the default brush settings to smooth them out.

 

When your all done, remember to position the skeleton back to default reference pose and only then export back out! 

Alright i have got to the point where i have to move the bones to replicate the issue i get. What is it that im moving? When i move the x, y and z thing ( see screenshot) nothing visually happens.

 

 

 

[blabba]

Select the actual bone node and shift it slightly.

 

Don't select the stuff in the skin yet. In fact don't select the body mesh until after you select the bone nodes and move them the way you want them to.

[Ginge620]

Select the actual bone node and shift it slightly.

 

Don't select the stuff in the skin yet. In fact don't select the body mesh until after you select the bone nodes and move them the way you want them to.

I get it now. Just got to get the hang of painting now. One last thing, is there a button/shortcut to reset the position back to the reference pose? Thanks

[blabba]

Not that I know of,

 

I usually just re-type in the values manually on the lower left hand corner to push the bone back.

[xxsleepyxx]

heh.  this is the same problem i was having. i guarantee if u remove the skeleton_female.hkx in character assets female then they will be the right shape.

 

of course some people may insist that every body ever made is wrong and the hkx is perfectly fine.

[dTd]

those bone weights are super easy to edit in outfit studio, and you'll visually see where they're too heavy or light, smooth or jagged, messed up or not. You can easily resize the brush and make very delicate adjustments and cleanups. I know it's not a real 3d modeling app, but for this stuff it's great IMHO.

[blabba]

heh.  this is the same problem i was having. i guarantee if u remove the skeleton_female.hkx in character assets female then they will be the right shape.

 

of course some people may insist that every body ever made is wrong and the hkx is perfectly fine.

 

For the love of god.

 

Please don't suggest to people to delete a file if you know nothing of what it does.

 

The hkx file is a very important file (called a rig map) for animators and HDT physics. With a properly adjusted file it helps govern custom bones for animation data. It also serves a purpose in hdt modding allowing physics to seed data from parent animated bones (allowing proper physics data for special custom animations and the like)

 

Just because you are ignorant does not mean you should spread ignorance.

 

It's hard enough for modders to make things work properly without users coming up to them and asking them why shit doesn't work when it clearly states in updated mod descriptions and such that you shouldn't be doing shit that others have said in the past to do. (Front page of XPMSE clearly states don't delete skeletonfemale.hkx)

 

edit: And no, his problem is nothing like your problem. His mesh is correctly weighted to 2.1+ skeleton values. The only thing is his mesh weights aren't as smooth as they could be.

[xxsleepyxx]

 

heh.  this is the same problem i was having. i guarantee if u remove the skeleton_female.hkx in character assets female then they will be the right shape.

 

of course some people may insist that every body ever made is wrong and the hkx is perfectly fine.

 

For the love of god.

 

Please don't suggest to people to delete a file if you know nothing of what it does.

 

The hkx file is a very important file (called a rig map) for animators and HDT physics. With a properly adjusted file it helps govern custom bones for animation data. It also serves a purpose in hdt modding allowing physics to seed data from parent animated bones (allowing proper physics data for special custom animations and the like)

 

Just because you are ignorant does not mean you should spread ignorance.

 

It's hard enough for modders to make things work properly without users coming up to them and asking them why shit doesn't work when it clearly states in updated mod descriptions and such that you shouldn't be doing shit that others have said in the past to do. (Front page of XPMSE clearly states don't delete skeletonfemale.hkx)

 

edit: And no, his problem is nothing like your problem. His mesh is correctly weighted to 2.1+ skeleton values. The only thing is his mesh weights aren't as smooth as they could be.

 

 

im not saying removing it is the correct solution.  just saying its the source of the problem.  And it would make more sense to tune a hkx to each body rather than try and redo every body and armor ever made.

 

[Groovtama]

 

 

heh.  this is the same problem i was having. i guarantee if u remove the skeleton_female.hkx in character assets female then they will be the right shape.

 

of course some people may insist that every body ever made is wrong and the hkx is perfectly fine.

 

For the love of god.

 

Please don't suggest to people to delete a file if you know nothing of what it does.

 

The hkx file is a very important file (called a rig map) for animators and HDT physics. With a properly adjusted file it helps govern custom bones for animation data. It also serves a purpose in hdt modding allowing physics to seed data from parent animated bones (allowing proper physics data for special custom animations and the like)

 

Just because you are ignorant does not mean you should spread ignorance.

 

It's hard enough for modders to make things work properly without users coming up to them and asking them why shit doesn't work when it clearly states in updated mod descriptions and such that you shouldn't be doing shit that others have said in the past to do. (Front page of XPMSE clearly states don't delete skeletonfemale.hkx)

 

edit: And no, his problem is nothing like your problem. His mesh is correctly weighted to 2.1+ skeleton values. The only thing is his mesh weights aren't as smooth as they could be.

 

 

im not saying removing it is the correct solution.  just saying its the source of the problem.  And it would make more sense to tune a hkx to each body rather than try and redo every body and armor ever made.

 

And that is the reason why people have problems, because people came up with ideas, and never thought of consequences... that is why after 3 years we have these problems, because nobody thought 5 mins.

 

Consequence of your idea is, having to redo every fucking armor for any hkx that is not to cherry/dragonfly specs... that is the same thing people did with modifing the nif and skinning to it... You just move it over the hkx than directly in the nif. If you skin it you can skin it right the first time.

 

Edit: if deleting the hkx fixes anything, your animations are fucked up because someone made them not for cherry\dragonfly BPP\TBBP.