Seeking to refine my knowledge of mods (stuck on animation problems)

[EmperorClydeIV]

Hi everybody,

 

I recently completed a full run through Skyrim which I had heavily modded with over 150 mods. I'm frankly surprised I could manage to keep it stable enough to enjoy the game for this long. This was my first skyrim modding experience.

 

But now, I want to understand a little more what I was doing, and maybe go a little further.

 

I have a rather large laundry list of questions I'm seeking answer to. Any anser the community could provide me would be greatly appreciated. Some of my questions are very open ended. Links to good sources where the matter is already explained are as much appreciated. I also hope this will be a good source of information for other users in the same position as me.

 

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1. When modifying the texture of things (mainly people, but anything really), there is the texture, but "maps" are often mentionned. If I understand correctly, the look of an object is created by more than one layer of "texture"? How does that work?

Answer : You got your diffuse map, normal map, and specular map. Your diffuse map is your basic body/face texture. That is the basis of what skin texture your character will have. Your normal map is the more defined parts. It is what gives your body depth basically. And the specular map is what gives your body that shine/flat look depending on what you use. Mostly, you'll care about your diffuse and your specular. A lot of people mix and match.

 

2. When using a BBP (breat & butt physic?) body, most of the time it looks fine, but sometimes breats gets streached to infinity, or jitters madly. Is that a know bug, or did I do something wrong?

Partial Answer : I'm not 100% sure, but it seems it was a problem with a combination of my skeleton & HDT. I redownloaded both on Loverslab and didn't encounter the problem since.

 

3. The tail of my argonians and kajhiits are stiff and straight horizontally. My guess is that one of my mods messed something with their physic. Any idea what? Is that a common error?

Answer : I don't have the problem anymore, so I can't test it, but there is a thread speaking about this same problem here : http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1998484-all-the-tails-on-the-beast-races-are-perfectly-straight/?p=17364379

 

4. I can see some follower mods giving their character a custom texture. How can they do that? I thought there was only one "texture asset" somewhere for everybody.

Answer : Those specific followers are completely standalone followers that don't use your assets, and instead use their own. They have specific folders in the data folder that the .esp reads to know to use those textures instead of your own.

 

5. Extending from #4, is there a way to load multiple character textures in Skyrim and randomly giving them to npcs for variety's sake?

 

6. Extending from #5, I've found a mod to include multiple body types in the game ( http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/37546/? ). I did not try it yet, but I guess it wont work properly with armor/clothing. I mean, for an armor to fit, you have to rebuild it to match the body's proportions, or else the character will change proportion when equipping the armor. Does the mod manage to change the armor proportions by itself?

Answer : You will still need armor for those body types otherwise it won't match up.

 

7. When SOS (shlongs of skyrim) loads up, it states "armors have been properly shlongified". What does that mean? Referencing my question #6, is SOS changing the armor's proportions through a script?

Answer : SoS is assigning schlongs to every character that is eligible for schlongs. That is what that is doing. Every time you enter an area with npcs around, SoS is checking their armor and body and adding schlongs appropriate for them. There is armors that are revealing that it adds to, and then there is mods that hide the slot so it is less load on your game while it does that. That is what SoS is doing when it says that.

 

8. If we dissassemble the various parts that makes a character, what would the parts be? My guess is : Body shape, body texture, eye texture, hair texture, beard texture, warpaints (and other overlays), face texture (it's seperate from body texture, right?), brow texture (again, a seperate thing?). I'm pretty sure I'm missing some. I guess I need to explain my question further. If I want to enhance the look of the characters in my game, I need to know what to look for. When I talk about the look, I mean both the shape and texture. As an example, I didn't know much about normal map and specular map, so I think I only got a new diffuse map in my game.

Partial Answer : There is enough "all-in-one" packages out there to not really need to know all this. My above list is close enough, and knowing about normal maps, specular maps and diffuse maps helped a lot.

 

9. There are texture enhancers for vanilla armor and weapons out there. I personnaly use a skimpy armor replacer. Are there some skimpy armor replacers that are also higher resolution available?

Answer : Texture enhancers will work on skimpy armor replacers, provided those skimpy armor replacers are just mesh replacers. Most skimpy armor replacers are just edits to the mesh to make the armor more revealing. They don't modify the texture at all. So you could grab some high def or random texture to edit your vanilla armor, and still have the skimpy armor at the same time.

 

10. I've seen Wyre Bash mentioned in a few "how to mod Skyrim". I didn't use it and my Skyrim worked just fine. Did I miss something without knowing it? Is Wyre Bash part of "the old way of doing it" or something?

Answer : With Mod Organizer, Wyre Bash is less usefull. Some mods require it to function properly and it can help to merge multiple mods into one when you have to many (there is a 255 mods limit). TES5Edit can merge mods too, but not scripts.

 

11. I've been using FNIS sexy move and momo dash ( http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/11447/? ) for my movement animations. When moving over uneven terrain, my character often sticks to a T-pose for a few second before returning to it's normal animation. Is that "normal", or I probably did something wrong?

 

 

----- Added 2014/08/30

 

12. Is there a good source information about meshes out there? I learned that most vanilla armor replacers only edit the meshes and not the textures. I'm a newbee on the subject but I'd like to know more.

Answer : It really is less complicated than I originally thought. The mesh is the objet's shape. If done correctly, you can change an object's shape and still use the same texture on it.

 

----- Added 2014/08/31

 

13. Skyrim modding tutorials often tell you to clean the main game's ESM files with TES5Edit. Why is it important?

Answer : You may not need it, but not doing it may lead to some bugs with some mods. Some data in the ESM have been deleted when then shouldn't. If a mod references that data, it will fail. The cleaning undelete this data. It does other things, but it's only important when it's a mod you're cleaning. The mod author should probably clean his mods himself.

 

 

That's all I can think of right now. I will probably add more as my research progresses.

[Flameroller]

I will say from my limited knowledge that there are 30 someodd parts (or perhaps more accurately referred to as attachment points) to each pc/npc body mesh. That somewhat answers question #8. From what I can tell, armors can only be modified in size by a body mod and not shape (This is called scaling). For example if you wanted to change breast size for an armor, you would have to get a custom version of that armor for the boob size. I might be wrong on that though.

[Spyder Arachnid]

I'll try to answer what I can with what knowledge I got.

 

1. there is I think 4 parts, but three are most important. You got your diffuse map, normal map, and specular map. Your diffuse map is your basic body/face texture. That is the basis of what skin texture your character will have. Your normal map is the more defined parts. It is what gives your body depth basically. And the specular map is what gives your body that shine/flat look depending on what you use. Mostly, you'll care about your diffuse and your specular. A lot of people mix and match. Like for instance, I use Eihei's diffuse map, SG Female Texture Renewal normal map, and then Fair Skin Complexion Sweaty Body specular map. This gives me the texture of Eihei's, the definition of SG, and the sweat of Fair Skin.

 

2. BBP is Better Breast Physics. Which is kind of outdated now that people use TBBP with HDT now. But stretching and jitters is not a normal thing. Usually jitters is a sign of lag, and stretching, no idea on that one.

 

3. No idea, have heard of it though. Not sure what causes it as I've never had that issue myself.

 

4. Those specific followers are completely standalone followers that don't use your assets, and instead use their own. They have specific folders in the data folder that the .esp reads to know to use those textures instead of your own. If you want those followers to use your textures instead, just toss your textures inside their folders.

 

5. I believe Body by Race (I think that is what it is called) allows you to assign different body types and textures to different races. So at least on a race basis, they will all look different. Your only other option is to use different armor replacers for matching body types. Like for instance, with your vanilla armor replacers, if you use UNP, UNPB, SevenBase, DreamGirl, etc etc (all UNP variants), and use those different types for the different armors, then you'll get some variety in body types at least. But texture wise, I don't think it is possible.

 

6. It doesn't change the armor itself. What that does is allow you to switch between different body types on the fly basically. You will still need armor for those body types otherwise it won't match up.

 

7. SoS is assigning schlongs to every character that is eligible for schlongs. That is what that is doing. Every time you enter an area with npcs around, SoS is checking their armor and body and adding schlongs appropriate for them. There is armors that are revealing that it adds to, and then there is mods that hide the slot so it is less load on your game while it does that. That is what SoS is doing when it says that.

 

8. There is a bunch of parts for the character. All the way to their teeth and eyelashes as well. Even the iris in some cases. The list would be really long if you tried to put together every single part of the body that you can edit lol.

 

9. Texture enhancers will work on skimpy armor replacers, provided those skimpy armor replacers are just mesh replacers. Most skimpy armor replacers are just edits to the mesh to make the armor more revealing. They don't modify the texture at all. So you could grab some high def or random texture to edit your vanilla armor, and still have the skimpy armor at the same time.

 

10. Most people use Mod Organizer or Nexus Mod Manager these days. When it comes to organizing and sorting your mods that is. When you need to merge mods, you can use Tes5Edit now with the merge plugin script. Some people still use WyreBash though, and it is still a good program.

 

11. Animation wise, sounds like a bad animation if you are T-Posing from just basic animations. Either that or it's corrupted somehow. I'd suggest either moving on to more newer animation mods (the TBBP animation of Dragonfly is good if you plan on going the TBBP HDT route), or just removing them if they are causing that.

 

 

 

Well there ya go. Hope that helped somewhat. There is probably more tech-savvy people here that can answer your questions more in depth.

[Aleanne]

2 & 3. Skeleton problem maybe. Try to install the xp32 one. Or the variants of it on this site if using HDT. If you don't know what HDT is, just use the regular xp32 skeleton. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/26800/?. Backup files first if not using a mod manager.

 

8. Depends on what we're talking.

If we're talking about body slots, here they are : http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Skyrim_bodyparts_number

If we're talking about skeleton nodes, there's a lot of them, and it depends of the skeleton.

As a user, you usually care more about the body slots, because armor/clothes sharing the same slots can't be used together (usually)

In case you don't know, the skeleton is a file controlling the characters and creature animations. A skeleton is made of nodes (articulations), 2 connected nodes are called bones. Some examples here : http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Working_with_animations_in_Skyrim

 

Edit : I have read your question again. Here is a partial answer. All these part have their own textures attached, some share the same textures (like body and hands). Some have only diffuse and normal, some also have a

Head

Teeth

Eyes

Inner Mouth

Body

Hands

Feet

Beard

Hair (some may have multiple parts as well)

Brows

Eyelashes

Skeleton

 

Some mods can add other parts like pubic hair or nails.

 

10. Mod Organizer is all the rage these days. I use Wrye Bash because I understand what it does. Note that MO and Wrye Bash can be used together. If you want to manage different Skyrim mod setups, MO is the way to go. Wrye has the Bashed Patch functionally, some mods may require it to operate properly. It also helps to cut down on the number of mods (you're limited to 255 mods, Bethesda esm included) , as it can merge some mods into the Bashed Patch.

NMM should be avoided if doing "serious" modding. If using Tes5Edit, do not merge scripted mods.

 

11. I use a "crawl on fours" anim for the sneak anim, and it happens sometimes. Maybe system lag is causing it, if too much things happens at the same time.

[EmperorClydeIV]

 

2. BBP is Better Breast Physics. Which is kind of outdated now that people use TBBP with HDT now. But stretching and jitters is not a normal thing. Usually jitters is a sign of lag, and stretching, no idea on that one.

 

 

I did not realize there was a difference between BBP and TBBP. I guess I'm really using TBBP because I use HDT (the physics is applied to all animations).

 

 

 

9. Texture enhancers will work on skimpy armor replacers, provided those skimpy armor replacers are just mesh replacers. Most skimpy armor replacers are just edits to the mesh to make the armor more revealing. They don't modify the texture at all. So you could grab some high def or random texture to edit your vanilla armor, and still have the skimpy armor at the same time.

 

That's good to hear! So now I need to understand what a mesh is. Hehehe. I searched for information on the subject, but so far what I found was a bit too technical for my newbeeness.

 

 

2 & 3. Skeleton problem maybe. Try to install the xp32 one. Or the variants of it on this site if using HDT. If you don't know what HDT is, just use the regular xp32 skeleton. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/26800/?. Backup files first if not using a mod manager.

 

 

I was going to say that I already got the xp32 skeleton and all, but thinking about it again I'm not sure anymore if I downloaded my skeleton on the nexus of here. I'll have to look into that. Yes I use HDT.

 

 

 

Edit : I have read your question again. Here is a partial answer. All these part have their own textures attached, some share the same textures (like body and hands). Some have only diffuse and normal, some also have a

Head

Teeth

...

 

Yes, that's what I'm looking for. I guess I need to explain my question further. If I want to enhance the look of the characters in my game, I need to know what to look for. When I talk about the look, I mean both the shape and texture. As an example, I didn't know much about normal map and specular map, so I think I only got a new diffuse map in my game.

 

 

That was a lot of good information. Thanks!

[Spyder Arachnid]

A mesh is, to put is basic, the form of something. The model so to say.

 

When you look at a naked body, you see the shape of that body. The curves, the dimples, the shape basically. The texture is the thing that wraps around that shape to give it detail. If there was no texture on a mesh, it would just be a purple body. The mesh is what adds the skin and appearance to the body to give it "life" so to speak.

 

 

As for your textures, depending on what texture mod you downloaded (SG Female Textures, Fair Skin Complexion, Mature Skin Texture, etc etc), they usually come with all the textures you need for everything. So you'll have diffuse, normal, specular, and all that already. Cause if you only had a diffuse map, then you'd have weird purple shines all over your character from missing the other textures.

 

 

BBP is better breasts physics, while TBBP is tender better breast physics. TBBP also has butt bounce added to it. If you already use HDT, then yeah I would assume you're using TBBP. Though HDT works with anything really, as it is a physic, not static animation. As for your skeleton, get the one from here on LL in the HDT section. It is like the one on Nexus, with many more options and better support for HDT as well.

[Groovtama]

BBP is better breasts physics, while TBBP is tender better breast physics. TBBP also has butt bounce added to it.

BBP is Breast and Butt Physics and TBBP is BBP with 4 instead of 2 breast bones.

[Spyder Arachnid]

 

BBP is better breasts physics, while TBBP is tender better breast physics. TBBP also has butt bounce added to it.

BBP is Breast and Butt Physics and TBBP is BBP with 4 instead of 2 breast bones.

 

 

Ah okay. Thanks for clearing that up. Wasn't sure on it.

[EmperorClydeIV]

 

 

11. I've been using FNIS sexy move and momo dash ( http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/11447/? ) for my movement animations. When moving over uneven terrain, my character often sticks to a T-pose for a few second before returning to it's normal animation. Is that "normal", or I probably did something wrong?

 

 

 

I'm really getting mad at this one. I've researched this subject all day. I have found some clues, but no real solution.

 

So far, if my animation are only an idle, a walk, a run and a sprint animation (female exclusive) without FNIS sexy move or any other animations, I am T-pose free. If I install Sexy move instead, I get T-poses from time to time. If i don't install Sexy move, but install new combat animations, I get T-poses from time to time.

 

Regarding the combat animation, I also get other glitches. sometime when I unsheathe, the animation does not play. I have to sheathe and reunsheathe to see my weapon in hand. Also, sometime my sword strike are out of sync, particularly when I'm doing a standing power attack (it seems like 2 quick strike instead of one big). Most of my test has been with the "Female Animation Pack" ( http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/29408/? ) but I have seen the sheathe problem with "New Animation for 1 Handed Weapon" too ( http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/18981/? ).

 

On the FNIS page I have found this :

 

 

 

• Important Note: Some custom animations may cause strange effects when used with GENDER, especially most combat animations from the Female Animation Pack, but I can't exclude other animation files and replacers. This is caused by animation duration differences between vanilla and custom, resulting in animation events being triggered in the behaviors AFTER the end of a custom animation. Most (not all) effects disappear when you install the FAP animations as downloaded (combat animations NOT in female).

 

Ok. That would easily explain my weird power attack. To test this, I switched to "New Animation for 1 Handed Weapon" which contain I animation for males and one for female. I guess the author took precautions and gave the animations the same length. After a few minutes of tests, I did not experience the weird power attack, but I did encounter the sheathe problem and the occasional T-pose.

 

I didn't try yet an animation replacer which isn't gender specific. I'm getting tired.

 

I hope I won't have to choose between some occasional animation glitch or the vanilla animations.

[EmperorClydeIV]

Ok. I have tried new combat animations that were not gender specific. YY Anim Replacer - Mystic Knight ( http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/33914/?) So far, no glitch. It seems like using gender specific animations (other than idle and basic movement) is a source of problems.

 

If someone else can confirm or refute this claim, I'd like to hear it.If I'm wrong, I'd like to know why.

 

[Dubhorizon]

3. http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1998484-all-the-tails-on-the-beast-races-are-perfectly-straight/?p=17364379 Fore's answer to the problem. His 2nd solution (renaming the folder) fixes it.