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[mod][wip] SSO Crime & Punishment -- Design Document


leechlord

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SSO Crime & Punishment -- Design Document

 

Update (07/07/2014): For any who are interested, I've just released an alpha version of a sex crime framework. After considering the implementation of Crime & Punishment for a while, I decided that it would be better to split the concept into two separate mods: a framework that allows other modders to easily use the crime system for their sex mods, and a content mod that adds all of the cool quests and events. The framework I've just published doesn't offer anything in the way of sexy new content, but it provides a solid foundation for that content when I do create the real Crime & Punishment mod.

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/33768-sexcrime/

 

Throughout history, criminal justice systems have been a nexus of corruption. Crooked jailers, abusing their charges; dodgy guards, threatening innocent individuals with unjust persecution unless their demands are met; scheming politicians, greasing palms to falsely imprison their enemies or cover-up their own crimes. The rather unambitious crime system in Skyrim captures none of this, and it’s about time this was changed.

 

The aim of SSO Crime & Punishment is to enhance the immersion and roleplaying impact the crime system of Skyrim has on the Dragonborn’s adventures. It is heavily inspired by the Prison Overhaul mod, but with dramatically grander scope. Here is a brief summary of what you can expect in SSO Crime & Punishment.

  • Sex crimes – get a bounty for criminal sexual activities!

  • False accusations – be framed for crimes you didn’t commit!

  • Jail rape – serving your time just got a whole lot less comfortable!

  • Dishonest guards – be blackmailed by guards looking for sexual favours!

  • Seduce nobles – gain favour from those who can clear your bounty!

This mod contains themes of rape, BDSM, blackmail, gangbangs, and possibly bestiality. It is highly modular and it should be possible to disable any of the elements that you find offensive.

 

The initial concept has no real accommodations for lesbian sex or male Dragonborns. I don’t take any issue with the inclusion of these elements but I haven’t had any great ideas for them content-wise. I’m no artist, so I can only make use of assets that already exist, and most of the useful assets that exist are for female Dragonborns only. I also don’t have the time to devote to content that doesn’t appeal to me, so unless any suggestions are particularly well done, I probably won’t add these myself.

 

Having said all that, the this mod will always remain open source, so if anyone else is interested in adding these features themselves they are welcome to do so. No alterations that include potentially illegal or overly objectionable content such as necrophilia or loli will ever be included in the official release, but alterations that fill in the gaps might.

 

IMPORTANT

 

This post is entirely conceptual at this point in time. I have started learning the skills needed to make it happen, but I haven’t started work on the mod itself. Why? Because anything designed by a single set of eyes is bound to have obvious flaws. I want YOU to tell me what I should add, what I should remove, what I should change, and anything else worth knowing. I’m going to leave it a few weeks before I begin coding up the mod itself, that way I am less likely to scrap all progress and start over when one of you gives me a great idea.

 

SSO stands for Sexy Skyrim Overhaul. It is entirely possible that I am biting off way more than I can chew, or will become too bored to do anything beyond this mod, but at the moment I envision a collection of seamlessly integrated mods called SSO. SSO Crime & Punishment is just one element of that collection.

 

Some of the ideas in this design document require interaction with mods that simply don’t exist yet. I may create them myself, possibly as part of the SSO collection, or possibly as very basic stand-ins to provide the bare minimum needed until someone takes on a more fleshed out version.

 

~~~~~ Sex Crimes ~~~~~

 

The following actions can now be considered criminal offences, and may incur bounties if witnessed. Unlike other crimes, many citizens of Skyrim don’t agree that these offences justify persecution, and so they won’t be reported by every citizen every time they are witnessed. Whether or not a particular citizen will report the Dragonborn is dependent on a number of factors including which crime it is, what their morality/stance on the crime is, how aroused they are as they witness it, what their disposition towards the Dragonborn is.

  • Public Nudity
  • Public Masturbation
  • Public Sex
  • Rape

Like most effects of this mod, any and all of these can be toggled on and off in the MCM menu for the sake of personal preference or compatibility with other mods. An API will be included to temporarily disable these as crimes so that mods can integrate compatibility with these features.

 

For public sex, the other actor involved will never report the crime. For rape, there will be some algorithm for determining if the victim will report the crime that will reflect a victim’s fear and embarrassment at being raped. The probabilities from this algorithm can be tweaked from MCM. For each of these crimes, a ‘public’ area is probably going to be defined as being within city walls but not inside a building. Some particularly high-traffic building may also be considered public.

 

If the player herself is being raped, she will not be fined for public sex or nudity. Depending on a number of factors witnesses may come to the Dragonborn’s aid whilst she is being raped. This effect will be optional and adjustable.  

 

~~~~~ Frame-Up ~~~~~

 

The Frame-Up module is responsible for a number of radiant events and quests designed to expand the reach and influence of the crime system in the world, potentially giving bounties to characters that have committed no crimes. The purpose of this module is to make it possible for a player to experience Crime & Punishment content without feeling the need to break character for a Dragonborn who wouldn’t usually steal, or murder (or get caught doing so). As always, features within this module can be disabled from MCM if desired.

 

A Crooked Guard

Rarely, a guard may be corrupt and abuse their power to rape law-abiding citizens. For this event a guard may confront the Dragonborn and threaten to report them for a crime they did not commit. They will play dumb and never say so directly, but they will imply that the Dragonborn might be able to do something for him to make him forget about this incident.

 

 

Options for the Dragonborn include:

  • Convince him to back off (speech check)
  • Attack him! This will be considered criminal assault unless all witnesses are killed.
  • Run! This will apply the bounty he threatened with.
  • Offer sexual service. This will then proceed to a more detailed sex of options where the Dragonborn will haggle over what services she needs to offer.

If the Dragonborn offers sexual services, the following options may occur:

  • Go to alley and dance / strip-tease.
  • Go to alley and blow.
  • Go to alley and fuck.
  • Go to alley and ass-fuck.
  • Meet him at an inn or his barracks after his shift and pleasure him all night.

A particularly greedy guard may demand any of these events again after the first is satisfied. If refused he may rape the Dragonborn. If she doesn't show up he will apply the threatened bounty.

 

The Dragonborn’s follower may be offered or included in negotiations. Not certain how this will be implemented at the moment: it might need to rely on some sort of slavery mod (is it really believable that you can just offer your companion without owning them?).

 

A clever Dragonborn may offer sex in order to lure the guard to a more quiet and secluded place before killing him.

 

The chances of this event are generally low, but will increase with the Dragonborn’s reputation as a slut if a sex reputation mod exists. It will also increase every time the Dragonborn ends up having sex with a guard due to this quest or similar quests. It will decrease every time the Dragonborn convinces a guard to back off, and every time the Dragonborn assaults (but does not kill) the guard.

 

 

A Lecherous Guard

Rarely, a guard may be corrupt and abuse their power to rape law-abiding citizens. For this event a guard may confront the Dragonborn and inform them that they have been accused of stealing a precious item of jewellery, and that they would like to perform a body-search for the item.

 

 

Options for the Dragonborn include:

  • Agree to empty pockets and a pat-down search. If the Dragonborn agrees to be searched, the guard will pat her down and then exclaim that they have felt something suspicious, and he orders the Dragonborn to strip naked.
  • Refuse the search. At this point the guard loses confidence and has no grounds to proceed, so the interaction is over.

If the Dragonborn agreed to the pat-down search, then she will have the following options after being ordered to strip naked:

  • Agree to a strip-search. If the Dragonborn agrees to the strip-search the guard will take her clothes and equipment for searching. He will admit to not finding the item among them. If he finds any contraband he will threaten her with a bounty for them unless she sexually satisfies him. If he finds no contraband he will gawk at the Dragonborn’s body, then return her equipment.
  • Refuse the strip-search. The guard warns the Dragonborn that he now has grounds to arrest her and lets her rethink her decision. If she refuses again then she gets a bounty and is arrested.

The chances of this event are generally low, but will increase with the Dragonborn’s reputation as a slut if such a reputation mod exists. It will also increase every time the Dragonborn ends up having sex with a guard due to this quest or similar quests. It will decrease every time the Dragonborn convinces a guard to back off, and every time the Dragonborn assaults (but does not kill) the guard.

 

This quest is intentionally very similar to the next one, so that a player who has experienced the quest before may not know which dialog options will be optimal without knowing which event they have encountered.

 

 

With Regards, from the Thieves' Guild

The Thieves’ Guild has a novel way of dealing with people they don’t like: they frame them for theft by planting a stolen item on their target and alerting the guards. For this event a guard may confront the Dragonborn and inform them they have been accused of stealing a precious item of jewellery, and that they would like to perform a body-search for the item. 

 

 

 

  • Agree to empty pockets and pat-down search. If the Dragonborn agrees to be searched, the guard will pat her down and then exclaim that they have felt something suspicious, and he orders the Dragonborn to strip naked.
  • Refuse the search. At this point the guard reveals that the tip was from a reputable source, and he has grounds to demand a search, which is essentially the same result as if she had agreed to the pat-down except that it lowers her chances of talking her way out of it later.

After being ordered to strip, the Dragonborn has the following options:

  • Agree to a strip-search. If the Dragonborn agrees to the strip-search the guard will take her clothes and equipment for searching.
  • Refuse the search. The guard takes this to be proof of guilt, and so you get a bounty and the guard will attempt an arrest.

After stripping naked, the guard will find the stolen item among the clothing. At this point the Dragonborn has the following options:

  • Convince the guard she has been set up. This option is requires a very hard speech check, and the difficulty of the check is worsened for each time the Dragonborn refused to be searched.
  • Get arrested.

This event is similar to hired thugs event or others in the sense that the Dragonborn needs to have wronged someone in order for the Thieves’ Guild to frame her. The more enemies the Dragonborn has made the more likely this is to happen. Once the Dragonborn becomes a member of the Thieves’ Guild these events no longer occur.

 

 

Aldmeri Conspiracy

Once the Dragonborn begins to become a thorn in the side of the Aldmeri dominion they may conspire to interfere with her quests. For this event a guard may come up and arrest the Dragonborn for committing a heinous crime. Their ‘proof’ is an eyewitness who accused you of the action. There are no interactions to get out of this one, the Dragonborn is immediately imprisoned.

 

 

The guard who arrested you foolishly named your accuser, and so if you manage to escape from your cell and confront your accuser you can easily intimidate them. They will confess that they were blackmailed into accusing you of the crime by the Aldmeri Dominion. This will absolve you of your bounty. If you don’t manage to escape from prison then it sucks to be you.

 

 

~~~~~ Hard Time ~~~~~

 

The Hard Time module is thematically very similar to what you may have experienced in the Prison Overhaul mod. It handles the abuses the Dragonborn will receive once she lands herself in prison. Unlike the Prison Overhaul mod, Hard Time will be much more varied and interesting: different holds treat their prisoners differently, different bounties and reputations warrant different levels of abuse, and sometimes serving a sentence may have long-term impacts on the Dragonborn’s adventures.

 

 

The following hold-based punishments are intended to be based off the attitudes of those who rule there. It is very possible that I have very limited experience with some of these characters, and so if you feel like these interpretations are out of character then don’t hesitate to tell me.

 

Whiterun

 

 

Jarl Balgruuf is just and compassionate, and his guards follow his example. Jarl Vignar Gray-Mane is also a fair and reasonable leader. Regardless of which Jarl controls Whiterun, the Dragonborn’s stay in prison should be relatively vanilla and uneventful.

 

There is a small chance that her jailer will rape her during her stay, and if this happens the Dragonborn will be able to seek an audience with the Jarl to complain after her sentence is finished. The Jarl will apologize and offer some financial restitution. If the Dragonborn is Thane of Whiterun she may be able to demand the dismissal or execution of her jailer. The speech skill required to make this happen will be dependent on her sexual reputation, if a mod exists to track the stat.

 

 

 

Winterhold

 

 

The people of Winterhold are downtrodden and apathetic, and aren’t strongly averse to rape. During her stay in prison the Dragonborn may be raped by her jailers occasionally, as they are all freezing cold and looking to warm up.

 

Jarl Korir resents mages, and blames them for the irrelevance of his hold. If the Dragonborn is a member of the College of Winterhold and is imprisoned whilst Korir is Jarl he will have the Dragonborn sexually tortured by a professional during her stay in prison. This is avoidable by being Thane of Winterhold, but even that won’t save you if your crimes were substantial or you have been imprisoned repeatedly.

 

Jarl Kraldar wants nothing more than to rebuild the glory of Winterhold. He doesn’t resent mages, but he has little patience for those who are an obstacle to his goals, and dislikes just how much of the city’s coffers are spent running the prison. If the Dragonborn’s bounty is too substantial then he will have her sold into slavery (if a mod to handle slavery exists) in order to recoup the bounty. Being a Thane of Winterhold will increase the bounty required to trigger this.

 

 

 

The Rift

 

 

Riften is a den of depravity and corruption. Jailers expect and look-forward to having their way with their charges. They will commonly parade their naked prisoners out to the centre of the city, where they are locked into a pillory to be used and abused by whichever citizens are interested. The jailer will pocket a small fee for each customer of course, but this is for their own pockets, not Riften’s.

 

Laila Law-Giver is a kind and just leader, but she is also totally oblivious to the corruption within Riften. The Dragonborn may complain to her about her mistreatment whilst jailed, but unless the Dragonborn has a silver tongue and is Thane to The Rift she will probably just dismiss the Dragonborn as a lying whore. If the Dragonborn convinces her to listen then she will be given some restitution (much less than deserved) and Laila will promise to clean-up the city (which will never happen, since Maven and The Thieves Guild feed her false information about the state of The Rift).

 

Maven Black-Briar owns the city guard. In-fact, in order to keep them loyal to her she actively encourages them to have fun with their prisoners, and promises to shield them from punishment. If Maven becomes Jarl of The Rift, Hemming Black-Briar, her son and steward may take the Dragonborn into long-term servitude as a sex-slave (if a mod to handle this slavery exists).

 

 

 

The Reach

 

Not much changes here, The Reach has always had a unique and interesting prison experience. The Dragonborn may find the some of her fellow prisoners are very keen to have their way with her, though.

 

 

The Pale

 

 

The Jailer of Dawnstar is a sadistic and evil man who takes great pleasure tormenting, raping, and torturing his prisoners. The Jarl couldn’t care less, and doesn’t bother himself with the complaints of filthy criminals. The Jailer will attempt to break The Dragonborn’s will and turn her into a loyal sex slave. If he can’t manage to break the Dragonborn before her stay is over he will equip her with one of several magic items that will make life very sexually difficult for her. This will force the Dragonborn to come back to have them removed, but he will take advantage of her and simply worsen her situation. It will be possible for her to be free of her curses, but it will be difficult to accomplish.

Item concepts include:

  • Ring of Depravity – a ring that forces the Dragonborn to masturbate occasionally. Can make combat and stealth very difficult if their timing is unfortunate.
  • Alluring Necklace – a necklace that occasionally makes the Dragonborn irresistibly attractive to those around her, causing many to attempt rape.
  • Circlet of Ardour – a circlet that boosts the Dragonborn’s libido dramatically.
  • Chastity Belt

This is probably one of the most detailed and in-depth quest ideas for the mod so far.

 

 

 

Hjaalmarch

 

 

Much the same as whiterun. Whilst the guards of Hjaalmarch aren’t the same morally-upstanding citizens as Whiterun’s guards, the guards are much too fearful and much too few in number to risk the Dragonborn’s retribution.

 

Whilst I feel like this works with the town lore-wise I can see that it might feel like a bit of a cop-out. Let me know if you have any cool suggestions for alternatives here.

 

 

 

Haafingar

 

Solitude’s guards are among the most disciplined in all of Skyrim. They won’t trouble the Dragonborn for their own desires. Having said that, Jarl Elisif pays great attention to her advisors, who are proponents of harsh justice. Prisoners of Solitude can expect to be publicly humiliated and raped in the pillory, but can expect no enduring consequences after serving their time.

 

 

Falkreath

 

The guards of Falkreath are lazy. The Dragonborn can expect a similar treatment to Whiterun if captive in Falkreath. Siddgeir is a somewhat hedonistic man, who believes that everything he wants is his for the taking. Siddgeir may take the Dragonborn as his personal sex slave if he is Jarl (if a mod to handle this exists).

 

 

Eastmarch

 

In an effort to appear righteous and resolute, Windhelm employs the same punishment doctrine as Solitude, but much more severe. Any prisoner of Windhelm can expect to be publicly humiliated and raped. They may also be taken to a public combat arena and raped by numerous creatures. The guards are much less disciplined that Solitude’s guards, and they may occasionally rape the Dragonborn as she serves her time, especially if she isn't Nord.

 

 

~~~~~ Quid Pro Quo ~~~~~

 

The Quid Pro Quo module handles any interactions the Dragonborn may use to her advantage in order to avoid or escape punishment for her crimes. There are numerous possibilities on many levels, from persuading a guard to pretend he didn’t see her, to convincing a nobleman to have your bounty cleared. Many more potential interactions exist.

 

In addition to the quests and interactions that follow, this module will provide an API so that the Dragonborn can receive varying levels of criminal immunity if required. It is envisioned that potential slavery mods may set things up so that a Jarl’s personal sex slave might be exempt from prison punishment (her master may discipline her directly, if required). It is also envisioned that future mods that make it possible to romance, enslave or enthral VIPs such as Jarls may benefit from some level criminal immunity as long as they continue their relationship.

 

Guard Interaction

If the Dragonborn’s bounty is low enough that guards don’t pursue her on sight, it may be possible for the Dragonborn to approach a guard and seduce him into having her bounty lowered slightly. This would be a very simple interaction that basically just involves offering the guard some sexual service. Chances of success will be based on the guard’s arousal and possibly other factors. Failure could result in an increased bounty.

 

If the Dragonborn is pursued by guards on sight, she may be able to convince the guard to pretend he never saw her in exchange for a sexual favour. This doesn’t remove bounty. The chances of this working go down for every potential witness (including other guards), and if multiple guards are around the Dragonborn will have to service all of them. Chances may be based on a number of other factors, including guard arousal.

Both of these interactions have the possibility of the guard(s) reneging on their agreement and arresting the Dragonborn after she has finished servicing them. Both of these interactions should allow for the Dragonborn to offer her companion’s services instead of, or as well as, her own (though this may be dependent on some sort of slavery mod).

 

Jailer Interaction

If the Dragonborn is imprisoned, an alternative to picking the lock in order to escape may involve seducing her jailer. The Dragonborn can make some noise to get her jailer’s attention, after which she may try entice them to come into her cell and ravage her. Chances of success can be increased by stripping off the prisoners’ rags, masturbating, or dancing, in order to increase his arousal. This may result in her jailer just laughing her off, being intrigued but unsure, or entering the cell and aggressively raping her just to put her in her place.

 

 

 

If the jailer enters the cell aggressively, the Dragonborn has two options:

  • She can try to incapacitate the jailer with unarmed combat (good luck with that). Allowing her to escape.
  • She can make a run for it, and hopefully escape despite being pursued.

If the jailer is intrigued, the Dragonborn has a few options:

  • She can blow him through the bars and attempt to retrieve the cell key, potentially allowing her to escape afterwards.
  • She can service him. After doing this several times her jailer may offer to smuggle her out. You can’t pickpocket the key with this option because the jailer will notice its absence when he locks the door after leaving.
  • She can refuse to service him, which could end up with her being raped.

 

 

 

VIP Interaction

Some characters in each hold will have the power to influence the guards. Jarls, housecarls, nobles, and the commander of the guard are all possibilities. It may be possible for the Dragonborn to romance one or more of these individuals and use their power to shield her from the law. It is undecided whether this should rely on a more comprehensive romance framework or if it should work all within Crime & Punishment.

 

If the Dragonborn is loved by one of these characters she may be able to ask them to handle her bounty. It might still cost her some coin, or be impossible, or be only partially possible (making seducing multiple VIPs useful), depending on the size of the bounty. Romancing usually takes some time, and usually these VIPs tend to live is guard-infested areas, so using this method after the Dragonborn already has a large bounty is probably impractical. It might be worth implementing a way to send your lover a letter asking for this favour, so you needn't sneak through guards to ask them.

Similar abilities may be incorporated if the ability to somehow enslave any of these VIPs, or if the ability to blackmail them, is implemented through other mods.

 

Barracks Interaction

The Dragonborn may become a regular slut for the barracks of the guards. She may receive a small fee for each guard pleasured, but it will be at a significant discount. The guards will see this as a bargain, and become averse to crossing you for fear that you stop showing up and pleasuring them all. For every guard pleasured some credit is built up to shield you against bounty (up to a relatively low maximum). This credit decays over time, so the Dragonborn will want to service the barracks regularly – perhaps weekly – if she wants to commit a lot of petty crimes. 

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This looks good so far but I'm against public humiliation and rape in the pillory in the middle of a city. This change the game too much and is the reason why I'm not using Prison Overhaul. They could have a pillory inside the jail or in a jail yard  but not in the middle of the city please. 

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This sounds absolutely great! Prison Overhaul was the first LL mod I've ever installed, and it gave me a few hours' worth of fun, but quickly the experience became dull and repetitive. I love that you're trying to make the experience not just more varied, but also more interactive. I really hope you manage to make this work.

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This looks good so far but I'm against public humiliation and rape in the pillory in the middle of a city. This change the game too much and is the reason why I'm not using Prison Overhaul. They could have a pillory inside the jail or in a jail yard  but not in the middle of the city please. 

 

That seems fair enough. Only three cities should have public humiliation with the current plan.

 

Solitude has a nice little soldier training area that Prison Overhaul already uses. Is this too public for you? Seems about right to me.

 

I can't remember where Windhelm's location is in Prison Overhaul, but I'm sure a similarly out-of-the-way spot could be found.

 

I'll need to think about Riften's one a bit though. Riften is meant to be a cesspool, and it wouldn't surprise me if humiliation was right in the middle of town square... Then again, the Jarl of Riften is being mislead to think that the city isn't all that bad. Perhaps the town center is slightly too public to keep up that illusion.

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I was thinking, since you want to engage in that sort of mod, if you could alter some vanilla quests and link it to your mod. For example, add a guard in front of the door leading to the balcony during the wedding in Solitude, who you can bribe to get across, add some bodyguards to people you have to assassinate like the Cook or that Occulatus general's son... This kind of stuff which could link the vanilla quest lines to your mod, and also add a "failure" factor to a quest, where you can fail in bribing a guard to get him away from your target and get put to jail, then let your mod take care of what goes on after that. 

Also, this one would be pretty tricky to script, but you could elaborate on the thalmor/imperial patrols around Skyrim, the ones who have a prisoner with them, and make a full radiant quest where you have to liberate those prisoners, but as a twist the thalmor/imperials would try to capture you instead if you fall under a certain health threshold, strip you of your belongings, bind you, and replace the escaped prisoner with you so you'd have to walk with them all the way to the nearest imperial controlled town, where you go directly to jail. On the way you could escape every time a critter or bandits attack the thalmor/imperial patrol, but outside of combat you'd just have to keep walking, you could create small events along the way where the patrol would stop for a minute and rape the character, etc ... Then directly link it to your mod as soon as you're in prison. Could be a hassle though, as you'd have to modify vanilla scripts for those patrols, plus if you get captured far away from a town and there's no critter around, well you're basically stuck walking at a snail pace ... Just some ideas.

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This sounds absolutely great! Prison Overhaul was the first LL mod I've ever installed, and it gave me a few hours' worth of fun, but quickly the experience became dull and repetitive. I love that you're trying to make the experience not just more varied, but also more interactive. I really hope you manage to make this work.

 

Thanks! Prison Overhaul is also one of my favorite mods so far. Like you, I've found that it quickly became dull and repetitive. I also found that I couldn't enjoy it if I wanted to roleplay a character who wasn't a sneaky thief... actually, I couldn't enjoy it even if I was a sneaky thief, because I'm a competent thief who doesn't get caught. That's the main motivation behind including the Frame-Up module.

 

I was thinking, since you want to engage in that sort of mod, if you could alter some vanilla quests and link it to your mod. For example, add a guard in front of the door leading to the balcony during the wedding in Solitude, who you can bribe to get across, add some bodyguards to people you have to assassinate like the Cook or that Occulatus general's son... This kind of stuff which could link the vanilla quest lines to your mod, and also add a "failure" factor to a quest, where you can fail in bribing a guard to get him away from your target and get put to jail, then let your mod take care of what goes on after that. 

 

Also, this one would be pretty tricky to script, but you could elaborate on the thalmor/imperial patrols around Skyrim, the ones who have a prisoner with them, and make a full radiant quest where you have to liberate those prisoners, but as a twist the thalmor/imperials would try to capture you instead if you fall under a certain health threshold, strip you of your belongings, bind you, and replace the escaped prisoner with you so you'd have to walk with them all the way to the nearest imperial controlled town, where you go directly to jail. On the way you could escape every time a critter or bandits attack the thalmor/imperial patrol, but outside of combat you'd just have to keep walking, you could create small events along the way where the patrol would stop for a minute and rape the character, etc ... Then directly link it to your mod as soon as you're in prison. Could be a hassle though, as you'd have to modify vanilla scripts for those patrols, plus if you get captured far away from a town and there's no critter around, well you're basically stuck walking at a snail pace ... Just some ideas.

 

I really like your idea. Slightly altering vanilla quests to suit the mod would be really cool, and definitely something I want to look at. The biggest concern would be potential compatibility issues (if other mods alter the same quests), but if I keep the keep the quest changes in a separate .esp then it becomes an optional extra. That would be cool. After that the only difficulty is choosing which quests to modify, and how to modify them.

 

I hope to set up this system so that it automatically takes over whenever the Dragonborn is sent to prison. Unlike Prison Overhaul, I wouldn't have the player bound and gagged on the spot when she's apprehended, I'd have her teleported to her cell just like she would be in vanilla, and then the mod should automatically recognize that she is a prisoner and take over. With this system being automatic, most minor quest modifications would come under the realm of mods like Sexlab - Solutions.

 

At some point I might skim through all of the quests on one of the Skyrim wikis and try to identify good opportunities, but that always runs the risk of me changing a quest I've never encountered before, and therefore making them lore-unfriendly by misinterpreting or misunderstanding them. Ideally the community (you guys) will be able to come up with a list of suggestions for me. The examples you have listed specifically seem much more like quests for Sexlab - Solutions to deal with, since they don't really involve the crime system at all, just a guard or two.

 

The very last suggestion, about the prisoner escort, might be a good idea in some way. It sounds very difficult and complicated, and for the most part has no connection to the crime system -- the same functionality could be implemented by anyone who creates a standalone quest that ends up getting the player arrested. It's probably more for a slavery system mod. Having said that, I never even considered whether the mod should have situations where there are other prisoners, and whether or not that should have any impact on gameplay. That's definitely something to consider.

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Altering vanilla quests sounds like a great idea, but it occurs to me that since most of those quests don't have any real fail conditions, making it impossible to complete the quest would either require you to devise an alternate route to finish the job after failing initially or else the whole questline becomes unavailable.

 

In general, don't bite off more than you can chew - your initial plans are already plenty ambitious! That's not to discourage you from listening to others' ideas, but don't be afraid to ignore them if they would push the project away from your comfort zone as a modder. Most people here are really chill and understanding, and we'd rather have a mod that does one thing well than a barely working mess that tries to pull off many things at once ;)

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Your mod plans right now neglect to include political powers.

 

If the DB is a Thane in that hold or not, being a Thane means having political power and should make you less of a target to start with and improve your ability to negotiate your way out of anything. Even the vanilla game allows recognizes you as Thane to have power.

 

Being the Head of the Thieves Guild you have included but how many ordinary guards do you think would step up and challenge the ArchMage either?

 

Likewise being a member of the Dark Brotherhood should give you a serious intimidation factor while being the head should cause any guard seeing you to turn away.

 

What's truly missing in Skyrim is the Trial and Judgement phase but implementing them would mean adding courtrooms to each hold, adding NPCs to serve as Judges or suborning the Yarls and their courts for those purposes which would work if you could craft the whole thing as a scene in the CK. That would be another place where being a property owner and or Thane should definitely impact the judgement.

 

Essentially though this mod should have a great impact in the early game when the DB is still a politically powerless unknown while by the end game the Db should be so well known and well connected that he or she could commit nearly anything less than murder right under a guard's nose.

 

-------------

 

Having said all that, I recommend you don't implement that right away but only make plans on how to add it as future enhancements. Truth be told most people who would use the mod are far more interested in seeing their DB get abused and mis-used and building those parts first will make your mod more sucessful while these suggestions are for making the mod more immersive for the long term.

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Like Waxen I believe guild membership should also have some benefits but other then that I think this mod if it gets done will be my favorite of all time. I loved Prison Overhaul but it really only worked you committed crime and got caught which in my games doesn't happen often. With your framing system and blackmail system I can actually enjoy this mod often which I look forward too. =D

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Your mod plans right now neglect to include political powers. (snip)

True!

 

 

 

Truth be told most people who would use the mod are far more interested in seeing their DB get abused and mis-used (...)

Also true!  :blush:

 

While a degree of internal logic in a "sexy" mod is well appreciated, there's really no helping the fact that LL mods operate primarily on "porn logic". Ain't anything wrong with it, if you ask me  :cool:

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Your mod plans right now neglect to include political powers.

 

If the DB is a Thane in that hold or not, being a Thane means having political power and should make you less of a target to start with and improve your ability to negotiate your way out of anything. Even the vanilla game allows recognizes you as Thane to have power.

 

Being the Head of the Thieves Guild you have included but how many ordinary guards do you think would step up and challenge the ArchMage either?

 

Likewise being a member of the Dark Brotherhood should give you a serious intimidation factor while being the head should cause any guard seeing you to turn away.

 

What's truly missing in Skyrim is the Trial and Judgement phase but implementing them would mean adding courtrooms to each hold, adding NPCs to serve as Judges or suborning the Yarls and their courts for those purposes which would work if you could craft the whole thing as a scene in the CK. That would be another place where being a property owner and or Thane should definitely impact the judgement.

 

Essentially though this mod should have a great impact in the early game when the DB is still a politically powerless unknown while by the end game the Db should be so well known and well connected that he or she could commit nearly anything less than murder right under a guard's nose.

 

-------------

 

Having said all that, I recommend you don't implement that right away but only make plans on how to add it as future enhancements. Truth be told most people who would use the mod are far more interested in seeing their DB get abused and mis-used and building those parts first will make your mod more sucessful while these suggestions are for making the mod more immersive for the long term.

 

Courtrooms / trials etc -- I don't want to deal with them. I imagine they could have been cool if implemented professionally by Bethesda, but in order to be good I think they would need proper voice-acting, and they would also need to be a minigame somehow to prevent them becoming boring and repetitive. They also sound like a nightmare to implement.

 

Thanehood -- I must have removed my references to this in an early draft of the document. Basically, anywhere there's a 'probability that this event happens' or a speech check, your Thanehood will come in useful. This means that most of the events in Frame-Up will probably be less likely when you are thane. Even when they do happen, where speech checks to intimidate your blackmailer come up, the required speech skill will be lower. I haven't decided if being Thane should lessen the severity of your punishment under Hard Time (this is an aspect I would DEFINITELY like some feedback on), but since I plan on having Hard Time kick in after you have been arrested, you will still be able to use your one get-out-of-jail-free card from being Thane.

 

The Thieves' Guild event doesn't need you to be guild master. There's a rule that you don't steal from fellow thieves, so I assume there's a rule that you don't frame one for a few bucks either. Just simply being a member of the guild will be enough.

 

Regarding being a guild-master: some of these I flat-out disagree with. Being a member of the Thieves' Guild or Dark Brotherhood is meant to be super secret, the average guard isn't going to know. If they did know, surely they would arrest you on the spot? Perhaps being Archmage or leader of the Companions should help you? Whilst I agree on some level, shouldn't the fact that you're the Dragonborn, who has killed dragons in solo combat, be more intimidating than any of these?

 

The frequency of most of these Frame-Up events should go down over time naturally, if you want them to. Remember, the first two Frame-Up events are set to become less and less likely everytime you manage to deal with one successfully. Just refusing and attacking the guard (even if you lose the fight and are then imprisoned) reduces the chance of those events ever happening again because they know not to mess with you. Your speechcraft will probably go up over time, too, which will help resolve the events nicely. 

 

Now I hope I'm not coming across as a bit too negative, shooting down your ideas. Keeping in mind the points I have just made, do you still think that being a guild master should come into things? Why, and how would you suggest doing it?

 

I think if I was going to try and factor in how 'politically powerful' the Dragonborn should be then I might simply reduce the chances of bad things happening by a tiny, tiny amount for each quest the Dragonborn has completed. Every quest you do, no matter who for or how difficult, must surely enhance your reputation and increase the number of allies you have. Maaaybe also check for some of the biggest events, like if the player has completed the main questline, the civil war questline, the companions questline, etc.

 

Or, perhaps the player should be able to use their combat skill levels to intimidate their blackmailer. Nothing tells the lowly guard that you aren't to be trifled with like sparks of electricity arcing from you menacingly. 

 

The Quid Pro Quo module does incorporate some politics on the Dragonborn's behalf with the ability to exploit romance / blackmail / slavery of a few VIPs per hold, who can help you out with your bounty. Perhaps this module needs to be expanded to be more useful.

 

I do like these discussions, even if I am playing Devil's Advocate against you. These things are definitely worth thinking about, and the more angles we think about this from, the more likely we are to find a cool solution.

 

 

Like Waxen I believe guild membership should also have some benefits but other then that I think this mod if it gets done will be my favorite of all time. I loved Prison Overhaul but it really only worked you committed crime and got caught which in my games doesn't happen often. With your framing system and blackmail system I can actually enjoy this mod often which I look forward too. =D

 

 

 Looking forward to this mod ! When or if it does get released, I believe that times you mentioned "if a mod to handle -blank- exists" should be addressed properly, such as a recommended mods section with all the links. Other than that, great mod !

 

Thanks!

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Interesting! So correct me if I'm wrong, but this mod is all about handling crime bounties of players right? Maybe you could make a framework out of it, so even if you implement all the feature that you listed other modders can add their own scenarios easily. Like how Death Alternative is being used for both Defeat and SD+ as well as how DD Assets and Integration grew into its own circle of mods to complement it. I hope you will make it through and best of luck!

 

We shall be waiting for the good news from you  :cool:

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Admitting to the guards that you're a member or, gods forbid, head of Thieves' Guild/Dark Brotherhood seems like a surefire way to have your head on a chopping block! It would be like a mob boss telling a cop who he really is, in enough detail to warrant immediate arrest (not much detail would be necessary given the much simpler and more intuitive concept of law/justice in this quasi-medieval setting).

 

Being an Arch-Mage could also easily become a mixed blessing - while some people of Skyrim fear mages enough to try not to cross you, others actively hate them, possibly to a degree when they'd go out of their way to ruin a mage's day.

 

The only "guild" I could see being unambiguously beneficial when it comes to dealing with the law is the Companions, as they have a really good reputation and are known for their prowess at kicking asses, a profession equally respected and feared all across Skyrim ;)

 

I could actually see it going the other way around with the Thieves' Guild and the Brotherhood, where some guards who recognize you as a member of either of those will try to blackmail you and impose a hefty bounty on you should you refuse their requests.

 

Another idea for a faction-dependent scenario would be the Civil War factions, as it's really lame how in vanilla Skyrim a renowned soldier of either army can just stroll right into the enemy capital, no questions asked. It would make much more sense if Solitude guards could recognize and try to apprehend your Stormcloak character and vice versa. This could even be made into a scenario where unless you manage to escape from prison, it's death penalty for you (as it wouldn't make much sense for either side to release an important enemy leader after torturing her/him).

 

For another blackmail/extortion scenario, I'd love to see the racism of Windhelm get addressed, with guards demanding money/"favors" from elf characters, and possibly those two assholes harassing the dunmer gal when you first enter the city making good on their threats and demanding things from your elf character lest they denounce you as an Imperial spy.

 

Oh, and since you plan to have an option of complaining to the Jarl about your mistreatment in the jails of some Holds, it would be nice to have that option everywhere, except in the more "morally bankrupt" Holds such complaints can send you back to prison for an extra round of fun until you learn your place :)

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Admitting to the guards that you're a member or, gods forbid, head of Thieves' Guild/Dark Brotherhood seems like a surefire way to have your head on a chopping block! It would be like a mob boss telling a cop who he really is, in enough detail to warrant immediate arrest (not much detail would be necessary given the much simpler and more intuitive concept of law/justice in this quasi-medieval setting).

 

Being an Arch-Mage could also easily become a mixed blessing - while some people of Skyrim fear mages enough to try not to cross you, others actively hate them, possibly to a degree when they'd go out of their way to ruin a mage's day.

 

The only "guild" I could see being unambiguously beneficial when it comes to dealing with the law is the Companions, as they have a really good reputation and are known for their prowess at kicking asses, a profession equally respected and feared all across Skyrim ;)

 

I could actually see it going the other way around with the Thieves' Guild and the Brotherhood, where some guards who recognize you as a member of either of those will try to blackmail you and impose a hefty bounty on you should you refuse their requests.

 

Another idea for a faction-dependent scenario would be the Civil War factions, as it's really lame how in vanilla Skyrim a renowned soldier of either army can just stroll right into the enemy capital, no questions asked. It would make much more sense if Solitude guards could recognize and try to apprehend your Stormcloak character and vice versa. This could even be made into a scenario where unless you manage to escape from prison, it's death penalty for you (as it wouldn't make much sense for either side to release an important enemy leader after torturing her/him).

 

For another blackmail/extortion scenario, I'd love to see the racism of Windhelm get addressed, with guards demanding money/"favors" from elf characters, and possibly those two assholes harassing the dunmer gal when you first enter the city making good on their threats and demanding things from your elf character lest they denounce you as an Imperial spy.

 

Oh, and since you plan to have an option of complaining to the Jarl about your mistreatment in the jails of some Holds, it would be nice to have that option everywhere, except in the more "morally bankrupt" Holds such complaints can send you back to prison for an extra round of fun until you learn your place :)

 

I like the way you think. Some good ideas in there.

 

Whilst designing the module I strongly considered making it so that every time you complete a civil war quest, every hold controlled by the opposite faction would raise your bounty (and bounty in a hold would be cleared once it was conquered). I decided not to include it in the design document because it's not really very sexlaby. Sounds like you think it might be worth adding anyway?

 

If I did ever implement a super-severe punishment for being on the enemy team (which sounds like a really cool idea), I think I'd still try to write it so that you eventually manage to escape. Quickload is just about the least immersive feature in the game to me, so I don't like anything that actually gets the player killed. 

 

I wonder what such a punishment scenario would look like.

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I really like your idea. Slightly altering vanilla quests to suit the mod would be really cool, and definitely something I want to look at. The biggest concern would be potential compatibility issues (if other mods alter the same quests), but if I keep the keep the quest changes in a separate .esp then it becomes an optional extra. That would be cool. After that the only difficulty is choosing which quests to modify, and how to modify them.

 

I hope to set up this system so that it automatically takes over whenever the Dragonborn is sent to prison. Unlike Prison Overhaul, I wouldn't have the player bound and gagged on the spot when she's apprehended, I'd have her teleported to her cell just like she would be in vanilla, and then the mod should automatically recognize that she is a prisoner and take over. With this system being automatic, most minor quest modifications would come under the realm of mods like Sexlab - Solutions.

 

At some point I might skim through all of the quests on one of the Skyrim wikis and try to identify good opportunities, but that always runs the risk of me changing a quest I've never encountered before, and therefore making them lore-unfriendly by misinterpreting or misunderstanding them. Ideally the community (you guys) will be able to come up with a list of suggestions for me. The examples you have listed specifically seem much more like quests for Sexlab - Solutions to deal with, since they don't really involve the crime system at all, just a guard or two.

 

The very last suggestion, about the prisoner escort, might be a good idea in some way. It sounds very difficult and complicated, and for the most part has no connection to the crime system -- the same functionality could be implemented by anyone who creates a standalone quest that ends up getting the player arrested. It's probably more for a slavery system mod. Having said that, I never even considered whether the mod should have situations where there are other prisoners, and whether or not that should have any impact on gameplay. That's definitely something to consider.

 

That's right, you would take some aspects from the Sexlab Solutions mod if you went and modified some quests in this kind of ways, but it wouldn't be that bad, I mean we are all Skyrim veterans here I believe, everyone must've finished the main quest line at least once, I don't believe people would mod their game on their first play through. That means people already know what is going to happen in all the quests, modifying them would only bring to the novelty and the "need to play the game again", instead of just taking a stroll around Skyrim and triggering mods to see what they do. 

 

I believe integrating mods into the quest lines is a huge benefit to the player, as he could start to enjoy the game itself, and once again have fun doing all the quests. See the pattern ? Instead of strolling Skyrim to try mods, you have to play Skyrim to try them, as they're integrated into it. 

 

But I agree with what carnifex said, doing everything you want to do first should be a priority, you've already got a pretty huge project here and I'd already love to have a mod like the one you want to make in my game  :sleepy:

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The only "guild" I could see being unambiguously beneficial when it comes to dealing with the law is the Companions, as they have a really good reputation and are known for their prowess at kicking asses, a profession equally respected and feared all across Skyrim ;)

 

 

Only if noone knows about their "blessing" from Hircine.

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I like the way you think. Some good ideas in there.

 

Whilst designing the module I strongly considered making it so that every time you complete a civil war quest, every hold controlled by the opposite faction would raise your bounty (and bounty in a hold would be cleared once it was conquered). I decided not to include it in the design document because it's not really very sexlaby. Sounds like you think it might be worth adding anyway?

 

If I did ever implement a super-severe punishment for being on the enemy team (which sounds like a really cool idea), I think I'd still try to write it so that you eventually manage to escape. Quickload is just about the least immersive feature in the game to me, so I don't like anything that actually gets the player killed. 

 

I wonder what such a punishment scenario would look like.

 

I definitely think it's worth adding! ;)

 

The only possible problem I see is that people who do the Civil War quests at this stage of game's life are more than likely to use some kind of mod for them already (because, let's face it, it's one of the lamest questlines in vanilla, despite having the potential to be at least on par with the main storyline in terms of scale and overall epicness), so having it trigger off specific quests could be problematic. I'd probably settle for it being restricted to enemy capital holds and triggered simply by belonging to the faction to minimize conflicts.

 

In fact, I think the best point to trigger such events would be right after the "Jagged Crown" quest, since it's the point where the character makes a final decision as to which side to join, and being the one who brings the legendary symbol of Skyrim's kings to one of the contenders for the title is bound to make the character (in)famous as the guy working for that particular faction. I know at least Civil War Overhaul doesn't really change anything before that quest is completed, so it should be relatively conflict-free.

 

As for the punishment itself, two things are clear in this scenario: guys who caught you want revenge for killing their fellow soldiers, and they want it as public as possible - since you're an important asset to your side of the conflict almost from the beginning of the questline, they want the news of your execution spread far and wide to break the morale of the enemy as much as possible.

 

One thing I totally see happening is soldiers entering your cell with the jailer's quiet permission to actually beat you up, then maybe rape you for good measure. None of that fancy whipping stuff, just a guy who lost a friend in the war taking out his frustration on you with bare fists. This would do wonders to hammer in the point that this isn't just another fancy-shmancy BDSM scenario - shit just got real, these guys want nothing but to witness your miserable demise. The jailer would intervene if the soldier would go overboard, but he/she would make clear it's just so you can live to see the day of your very public execution.

 

I could also see the character being taken to a gathering place every day, along with a captain of the guard who would publicly announce the date of your execution, then leave you exposed for a few hours so you can listen to the good folk of the hold loudly announcing how much they hate you and how happy they'll be to see your head roll. This would go alongside public whippings, but I don't see the crowd participating - again, they want an execution, not a lynch. (I just realized what mod this game really needs: a way to throw tomatoes at people  :cool: )

 

Then, there's the matter of best torturers they can afford trying as many ZAZ contraptions on you as viable, tormenting you within inches of your life, then shoving a healing potion down your throat and starting anew... I think you get the picture.

 

Since you don't want an option of a "bad end" (which I fully understand, though personally I like the possibility as long as there are ample opportunities to avoid it), it could be fun to end the scenario with you being taken to the execution place, publicly shamed/tortured some more, and when they finally put your head to the block, the agents of your faction make a last-minute daring rescue, killing the executioner, cutting your bonds and handing you a simple weapon so you can all cut your way through the guards and the angry mob, with horses waiting outside the gates, the whole shebang. This would be in addition to having some opportunities to escape before it gets to this point. You'd then be taken to Galmar/Rikke, depending on the faction, who'll chastise you for being so stupid as to enter the enemy capital like it was nobody's business, then give you some basic equipment and tells you to heal up and get back to saving/liberating Skyrim.

 

I've probably overdone it by a large degree, but my understanding of modding is basically "modder-God do stuff, awesomeness happen" and I can barely even intuit the actual complexity of such a scenario. Feel free to use and abuse those ideas to your heart's desire, and I promise you won't hear one word from me if it turns out to be too complex/bothersome to implement.

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Ok lots of ideas being toss around here, they are all sound and good, but few things I think we need to keep in mind.

 

Firstly base on the document, this mod at its fullest will probably have to replace Prison Overhaul since it will likely conflict with it...although...more on that later.

 

Game limitation, the bounty system in Skyrim exist in an almost binary state, 1 where no guards will bother you (no or low bounty), 2 where all the guards are chasing after you on sight (anywhere above low bounty). And with the limited size of holds and areas it is impractical to sneak around guards unless you are really geared up for it, sneak, invis, muffle, etc.

Getting bounties because of civil war means there's pretty much half the world you won't be able to visit regularly.

 

Replaying events, many people mention Prison Overhaul eventually loses its charm after replaying its scenarios. Technically PO has I think 3 scenarios, one for low crime, mid crime, and high crime, but they are all similar in nature, and eventually they burn out. I think this mod will eventually hit that point as well, although later, nothing wrong with it, just the nature of story telling being repeated. You are taking control away from the player to sit through an occasionally lengthy sequence first few times it'll be fine especially if it is new, but after a while if it is the same sequence it might get stale.

 

Framing and helpers, they are good ideas, framing is probably the only way to get a lawful character to experience the mod, but like I said earlier bounty exist in a binary state and applying the bounty is immediate, sometimes it works for what the mod is trying to do, sometimes it doesn't. If bounties is immediately apply, it is unlikely the PC will get a chance to call for help from helpers. Also "building up" relationship with powerful individuals relying on other mods is not necessarily the best approach and create dependencies, but if build into the this mod might become a case where "fuck this guy first so when/if the guard comes you might not have to fuck them in prison" It might actually work better in a reverse scenario where a corrupted powerful individual approach the PC with sexual advances with threat that if she does not comply he will send the guards after her. Could start with say a courier give PC a letter asking her to meet someone.

 

Pieces of the mentioned scenario might make good mini punishment scenes. Say a low theft bounty the guards might do a strip search plus gold fine then let PC go. On the spot sex punishment/whipping can also work. Only get march to prison for higher bounty crimes. And something that I find missing from Prison Overhaul, there should be events that trigger while being marching around town or marching around town IS the punishment. ;)

There can be an escalation of punishment as the PC keeps on getting into more trouble for a period of time. And have that slowly tone back down as PC stops getting into trouble.

 

Oh and someone mention most of us probably have finished Skyrim...well maybe most people. I haven't  :P I finished Dragon Rising quest yesterday and it was for the sake of testing out a mod :P

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Any suggestions for how the public nudity crime should be implemented? 

 

Masturbation, sex, and rape can all be done on a case-by-case basis (ie: you don't get fined twice for the same masturbation session). Nudity is much less quantifiable though.

 

Perhaps just have it check every x seconds to see if the player is (still) nude, and increase the bounty (again, if necessary)?

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Slaverun has the opposite going, where player has to be nude in order to not get into trouble with the law. The original mod checks when you talk to NPCs while clothed. Slaverun Enforcer checks base on if NPCs can sees you or not and adds bounty accordingly.

 

First you have to define what is nudity. Is it base on equipped slots or each equipment's "tags".

Next how does it get detects is it going to be base on who sees you actual field of view non hidden? or does it checks when you move in for dialog? Perhaps it triggers when they make the "you are naked" comment.

Then what they do about it? If a civilian sees you are they going to "report" you therefore adding bounty on you or are they not going to care? Maybe it is cased by cased, NPC by NPC

If guards see you are they just going to add bounty or are they going to move in for an arrest right away?

 

The issue also starts to get messy when there are times when a character is nude rather it is during punishment sequence or sex/rape victim one way or another.

 

While there can be a case make for public nudity to be a crime, but if punishments include public sex, strip search, and other similar themed content does it really make sense for public nudity to be a crime? Although it would make some interesting dialog when guard decides to do a strip search.

There can however be scenarios where public nudity is a crime, but the PC is in some sort of troublesome quests that forces her to be naked to accomplish certain tasks, which could enables other scenes to trigger.

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As with all elements of this mod, the user will be able to disable the nudity crime from the MCM menu. The mod will also provide an API that allows other mods to temporarily disable the criminality of nudity, so that they can become compatible with the ideas you have mentioned.

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