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[CLOSED] Project C.I.T.R.U.S. - Old WIP thread


blabba

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Dunno, never really thought of it that way.

 

Most probably I thought the 7base bombshell as the base shape would be the best received because a lot of armor conversions already 'fit' that body. So it'd be just plug and chug for people wanting to make the outfits slideable.

 

Though I guess the argument could be made to make it something like UNP Slim or CBPE as the 'baseshape' and then use sliders on that.

 

Still I'll have to experiment and see what's the most efficient and best way to go about handling all this :)

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Just a thought (and I could be wrong), but wouldn't it make sense that the base shape be the same shape as vanilla (but with a crap ton more verts of course)?  This way, making clothing and whatnot (vanilla at least) conform should be easy as everything would fit in the first place and then just need to be adjusted in Outfit Studio to work with sliders.  I mean as long as there were sliders to morph it into any shape we wanted after that, it shouldn't matter that much what the base shape looks like, right?  Or am I way off base here? ^_^

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Just a thought (and I could be wrong), but wouldn't it make sense that the base shape be the same shape as vanilla (but with a crap ton more verts of course)?  This way, making clothing and whatnot (vanilla at least) conform should be easy as everything would fit in the first place and then just need to be adjusted in Outfit Studio to work with sliders.  I mean as long as there were sliders to morph it into any shape we wanted after that, it shouldn't matter that much what the base shape looks like, right?  Or am I way off base here? ^_^

 

A lot of armors made specifically for females are made using a body mod as a base, and don't even have a vanilla body version.

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The way I'm thinking of how to do it in my head is that the new system's default body will be '7Base Bombshell' So you'd first convert the outfit to that and THEN you would have to convert to another shape like Dreamgirl, UNP, whatever, (or keep the 7base bombshell shape) and apply an expanded amount of sliders (like 7base Bombshell legs, or Dreamgirl breasts, or whatnot) and go from there.

 

Dang... The more I try to set this up in my head the more confused I get, hopefully stuffed_bunny will provide some guidance on how 'best' to set this up. :s

 

Not to worry. I am doing something similar with Bodyslide UNP/B/7B. There will be a lot of "bodytype" sliders,

pretty much all UNP-based bodytypes will be included, but none outside UNP territory. And then there are

the usual sliders, some modified, perhaps a few new ones, or some CB++ ports.

 

It is quite time-consuming to set this up, but it should work well in theory. Only problem is that when you apply

any major slider, especially bodytype ones, you essentially have a new baseshape, which other sliders may not

work so well with, since they were originally designed for another baseshape. Example: breast sliders made for

the UNP shape may give weird results when used with UNPB-breasted UNP. Actually, all sliders affecting the same

areas can have that effect on each other.

 

Nah, a unified base body and none of the incompatibility shenanigans, that's the thing.

 

I really like DG  because it contorts really well and suffers little or none of the mangled limbs and hips and texture distortion, doesn't matter what pose you put it in, it always looks good. But I'm not a fan of it's shape. I like 7B Bombshell's meaty thighs, shapely calves and those swimmer's shoulders, but I really don't like it's signature pudding bowl boobs and it's inherited at least some those UNP weaknesses.

 

With a really decent base body that we can tweak to our heart's content in bodyslide all that goes away. And I'd be a very happy bunny. 

 

Ok, another bunny. Anyway... thanks to Malystraza, the error in the highres Dreamgirl nif was found. So it should be working now:

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/27444-the-future-of-female-body-mods/page-2?do=findComment&comment=697498

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[sic]

 

Edit: Malystraza was kind enough to point out what the problem was. The bone translations was messed up.

So after testing the body with the armature of the original nif (which produced horrible seams), I checked

at which point the problem may have occured. The Blender export was correct, after Nifscope changes it

was still correct... so the only remaining suspect is Outfit Studio, which I used trying to unify the skin partitions.

 

So, new upload. Still just an experiment, but it seems to animate properly. If anything the weights should

in theory be slightly better than original Dreamgirl, at least the weirdly weighted arm.

 

If anyone likes to restore any smoothed out details of the original mesh, feel free to do so. I recommend

exporting/importing OBJ files to do any reshapes. Or slider shapes if you are so inclined.

 

I can confirm that Outfit Studio is the culprit.  I was using it to copy and refine some weights on my DG TBBP meshes and when I loaded them in-game, they had terrible seams.  I checked the edited meshes against the original ones, and sure enough the translation was off on several nodes.

 

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Don't know if that matter much, but you've got my green light blabba. Of all the people I know, you might actually succeed :).

 

However, I find it rather impractical, because any modder making a slide'able version of his work would have to prepare tenths of .nifs capturing the 100% of each of those sliders :D. What seems to be far more convenient is dropping Body Slide altogether and working with ECE sliders. In this scenario you would have:

 

1 body mesh with good texture support

X ECE sliders, which require only installing and nothing more (no additional work for each model, might you!)

N satisfied people, who can adjust the anatomy of their characters to their liking (both modders and regular users)

 

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Don't know if that matter much, but you've got my green light blabba. Of all the people I know, you might actually succeed :).

 

However, I find it rather impractical, because any modder making a slide'able version of his work would have to prepare tenths of .nifs capturing the 100% of each of those sliders :D. What seems to be far more convenient is dropping Body Slide altogether and working with ECE sliders. In this scenario you would have:

 

1 body mesh with good texture support

X ECE sliders, which require only installing and nothing more (no additional work for each model, might you!)

N satisfied people, who can adjust the anatomy of their characters to their liking (both modders and regular users)

 

Bodyslide works by just creating a folder with 1 .nif mesh and a bunch of .bsd (10 -100 kb) folders.

It's fairly simple to use and make outfits for, but chances are actual Outfit Modders are less than likely to make them themselves unless widely demanded or popularly used :(

 

The only advantage ECE sliders have over BodySlide that I can currently think of is the in-game ability of sliding.

There might be a few more though, I just can't think of them all yet :P

 

You'll have to teach the masses how to use Bodyslide and what the point is. Make it easy for them and easy to understand if you hope to ever have this come to fruition.

 

Hehehe, I think I got that fairly well covered ;)

Outfit Studio for Dummies

Though if you have any suggestions I'd love to hear them!

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However, I find it rather impractical, because any modder making a slide'able version of his work would have to prepare tenths of .nifs capturing the 100% of each of those sliders :D. What seems to be far more convenient is dropping Body Slide altogether and working with ECE sliders. In this scenario you would have:

 

ECE sliders manipulates bones, not meshes. So you can't actually customize your shape in ECE (same for Racemenu), only increase decrease certain bones. Also, you can't do it separately for body and armor, while in bodyslide you can easily set certain armor to have a desired amount push up or cleavage effect, etc.

 

Making slide'able stuff is quite easy, though. They have provided us a very simple yet effective tool for that, which is Outfit Studio. Not to mention how many hours of enterteinment have provided to many of us bodyslide itself...

 

In any case, what you suggest would be Racemenu, not ECE, if Expired gets to finish it's idea of tri morphs for body parts. That could be the beginning to the translation of Bodyslide to an ingame editor, though I find many disadvantages to that (since you'd loose all the management advantages of bodyslide, and gain nothing since bodyslide can work with the game open and changes reflects in game, if for some reason you find the bodyslide previewer not sufficient...)

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However, I find it rather impractical, because any modder making a slide'able version of his work would have to prepare tenths of .nifs capturing the 100% of each of those sliders :D. What seems to be far more convenient is dropping Body Slide altogether and working with ECE sliders. In this scenario you would have:

 

ECE sliders manipulates bones, not meshes. So you can't actually customize your shape in ECE (same for Racemenu), only increase decrease certain bones. Also, you can't do it separately for body and armor, while in bodyslide you can easily set certain armor to have a desired amount push up or cleavage effect, etc.

 

Making slide'able stuff is quite easy, though. They have provided us a very simple yet effective tool for that, which is Outfit Studio. Not to mention how many hours of enterteinment have provided to many of us bodyslide itself...

 

In any case, what you suggest would be Racemenu, not ECE, if Expired gets to finish it's idea of tri morphs for body parts. That could be the beginning to the translation of Bodyslide to an ingame editor, though I find many disadvantages to that (since you'd loose all the management advantages of bodyslide, and gain nothing since bodyslide can work with the game open and changes reflects in game, if for some reason you find the bodyslide previewer not sufficient...)

 

 

 

 

I agree that so far Bodyslide/Outfit Studio is more advantageous as compared to ECE/Racemenu, however Outfit Studio is still rather imperfect and as far as I recon it doesn't handle HDT and the conversion usually needs fine-tuning afterwards. That's why, as a modder, I'm reluctant to use it :). The only features I usually change are butt, breast and waist size and those are handled by ECE sliders.

 

I admit it might be more about my personal tastes than the general standpoint :D.

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Outfit Studio just handle simple conversions, you need a proper 3D editor to make a new mod of course. But after you've got a working nif, just using it to create slidersets for anyone use it in bodyslide is rather simple. As for HDT, that's more than simple 'fine-tuning' but that's with our without bodyslide capabilities :P

 

Racemenu/ECE sliders can certainly handle butt, breast and waist but... very bad, aka torpedo boobs, crushed buttocks, etc. Bone modifications should only be left for overall proportions (like legs-torso for example) when there's already a tool that allows you to actually customize the shape of the mesh...!

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Outfit Studio just handle simple conversions, you need a proper 3D editor to make a new mod of course. But after you've got a working nif, just using it to create slidersets for anyone use it in bodyslide is rather simple. As for HDT, that's more than simple 'fine-tuning' but that's with our without bodyslide capabilities :P

 

Racemenu/ECE sliders can certainly handle butt, breast and waist but... very bad, aka torpedo boobs, crushed buttocks, etc. Bone modifications should only be left for overall proportions (like legs-torso for example) when there's already a tool that allows you to actually customize the shape of the mesh...!

 

This actually tempts me to make sliders for my HGECR body ;D.

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Guest GuyWhoAbruptlyDisappeared

So if you don't know already, I'm the resident crazy wacko trying to figure out how to 'unify' All Body Mods into 1 standard universal mod that people could then take, pick, and choose the body 'features' they like. (AKA make a universal Body that's BodySlideable to Have all looks and features)

 

And I think I found a somewhat easy enough way to do that.

 

My new question is how should I best go about doing this in such a way that textures would also still work without having to be re-made as well as how best to go about doing this whole hands and feet mesh thing.

 

But I digress, I should first share with you some interesting photos that you may or may not like about my 'recent' discovery.

 

Here's CBBE body in BodySlide with CBBE textures:

 

 

 

paint.png

 

 

 

Here's a Real 7Base body in Bodyslide, my proof that I'm not tricking you into thinking it's the CBBE to 7Base Conversion body? The CBBE based textures are completely off, like they should be.

 

 

 

7base.png

 

 

 

Now watch the magic of sliders for Real 7Base Bombshell:

 

 

 

output_2_A6_ODz.gif

 

 

 

Pretty Neat eh?

 

Of course not all sliders work and such, but they can be easily fixed with some tweaks in 3DSMax and/or Outfit Studio

 

How did I achieve this magic? Will I share/make a tut on how to do this?

 

Well, the answer is pretty obvious if anyone out there thinks about it and has used Outfit Studio, but yea I'll share the how to and a guide probably later after I've heard back from the experts (Cell & Stuffed_Bunny) about any possible conflicts and or issues with doing things this way...

 

The Plan:

If all's good and I get a green light, I eventually plan on Ripping every single Body out there of all it's 'assets' and 'features' to make a universal slider set. Then phase 2 would probably find the highest poly body mod with decent amount of texture support (or someone who'd be willing to port textures over to lesser known Body Mods but have a higher vertex count) and fit sliders onto it. With Phase 3 finally being fixing/tweaking the weights to make it HDT compatible and resuming further work in Project FLESH and waiting for the brilliant guys at the Realistic Vagina thread to finish their work. (Optionally getting SOS mesh stuff for futa things)

 

Oh yea, if this Mad idea ever works out, it's gonna be hell to make armor conversions for...

 

Meh let me know what you think from an outfit/body modder's or user's standpoint. Does my plan sound stupid, farfetched and/or disillusioned? Or do you think it'd be a pretty cool idea and at least somewhat of an 'end-all' to exclusive body mods?

 

I'd love this.

 

By the way, the highest quality model I have seen is Dream Girl. The mesh is superb, the deformation is beyond superb, and the HDT looks fantastic on it.

I used dream girl once, just to try it out, and tried to switch back to UNP. The UNP model is gross next to the Dream Girl model.

 

Also, someone made a dream girl version of SG Female Textures Renewal, which looks great. 

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By the way, the highest quality model I have seen is Dream Girl. The mesh is superb, the deformation is beyond superb, and the HDT looks fantastic on it.

I used dream girl once, just to try it out, and tried to switch back to UNP. The UNP model is gross next to the Dream Girl model.

 

If you are a vivid DG supporter, would you care to do some testing of the highres version and report how it animates

compared to the original? I'm terrible at testing stuff, haven't even got any custom animations installed.

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/27444-the-future-of-female-body-mods/page-2?do=findComment&comment=697498

 

Another thought: with a DG-UNP conversion bridge, it would be quite possible to transfer the DG weights to UNP.

Then again, that only works with the body, unless someone would be wiling to transfer the weighs to outfits too.

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Guest GuyWhoAbruptlyDisappeared

 

By the way, the highest quality model I have seen is Dream Girl. The mesh is superb, the deformation is beyond superb, and the HDT looks fantastic on it.

I used dream girl once, just to try it out, and tried to switch back to UNP. The UNP model is gross next to the Dream Girl model.

 

If you are a vivid DG supporter, would you care to do some testing of the highres version and report how it animates

compared to the original? I'm terrible at testing stuff, haven't even got any custom animations installed.

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/27444-the-future-of-female-body-mods/page-2?do=findComment&comment=697498

 

Another thought: with a DG-UNP conversion bridge, it would be quite possible to transfer the DG weights to UNP.

Then again, that only works with the body, unless someone would be wiling to transfer the weighs to outfits too.

 

 

There's a lot more good about DG than the weights.

 

Does your high-res version still support TBBP / HDT?

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Hehehe,

 

I saw that and was like, yeap that's what's gonna happen here.

Especially since I do not plan to release on Nexus, which basically cripples it magnanimously as majortity of outfit modders aren't going to 'discover' it from here :(

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Hehehe,

 

I saw that and was like, yeap that's what's gonna happen here.

Especially since I do not plan to release on Nexus, which basically cripples it magnanimously as majortity of outfit modders aren't going to 'discover' it from here :(

 

Just curious, why not release it on nexus? even if just to get the exposure and keep all of your comments and working here and only update it on nexus once you finish a new update?

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Just curious, why not release it on nexus? even if just to get the exposure and keep all of your comments and working here and only update it on nexus once you finish a new update?

 

 

I'm not against uploading on the nexus, it's just that it's undeniably A LOT more work. That time that I'd rather spend doing and working on new things and stuff here. I just like this community a lot more as well as the layout of this site.

 

I'm alright with someone 'mirroring' it up on nexus (provided I get an ok from Vioxsis as well, as s/he is the one doing all the tough stuff) but I don't want to get that 'feeling' of responsibility of handling the nexus stuff.

 

There's a whole list of reasons why uploading a mod there is more of a hassle for me personally. But there's too many to list as well as I'd rather not off-track this topic.

 

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Just curious, why not release it on nexus? even if just to get the exposure and keep all of your comments and working here and only update it on nexus once you finish a new update?

 

I'm not against uploading on the nexus, it's just that it's undeniably A LOT more work. That time that I'd rather spend doing and working on new things and stuff here. I just like this community a lot more as well as the layout of this site.

 

I'm alright with someone 'mirroring' it up on nexus (provided I get an ok from Vioxsis as well, as s/he is the one doing all the tough stuff) but I don't want to get that 'feeling' of responsibility of handling the nexus stuff.

 

There's a whole list of reasons why uploading a mod there is more of a hassle for me personally. But there's too many to list as well as I'd rather not off-track this topic.

 

Yeah I understand that, I was only thinking having it up there would likely get it a lot more support from others making armor and clothing mods etc for it. Which can really help make or break such a mod.

 

For example I use UNP mostly cause it is a good body mod IMHO but also it has a lot of support. No matter how great of a body mod you might be able to get if your choice of armor and stuff is very limited it makes it less appealing especially since our characters likely spend the majority of their time clothed.

 

That was the main reason I asked, I love the idea of your project and if you can get it going I would love to see it get a lot of support and sadly that means lots of exposure which for Skyrim pretty much means Nexus.

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Just curious, why not release it on nexus? even if just to get the exposure and keep all of your comments and working here and only update it on nexus once you finish a new update?

 

I'm not against uploading on the nexus, it's just that it's undeniably A LOT more work. That time that I'd rather spend doing and working on new things and stuff here. I just like this community a lot more as well as the layout of this site.

 

I'm alright with someone 'mirroring' it up on nexus (provided I get an ok from Vioxsis as well, as s/he is the one doing all the tough stuff) but I don't want to get that 'feeling' of responsibility of handling the nexus stuff.

 

There's a whole list of reasons why uploading a mod there is more of a hassle for me personally. But there's too many to list as well as I'd rather not off-track this topic.

 

Yeah I understand that, I was only thinking having it up there would likely get it a lot more support from others making armor and clothing mods etc for it. Which can really help make or break such a mod.

 

For example I use UNP mostly cause it is a good body mod IMHO but also it has a lot of support. No matter how great of a body mod you might be able to get if your choice of armor and stuff is very limited it makes it less appealing especially since our characters likely spend the majority of their time clothed.

 

That was the main reason I asked, I love the idea of your project and if you can get it going I would love to see it get a lot of support and sadly that means lots of exposure which for Skyrim pretty much means Nexus.

 

 

Learn to use Bodyslide 2 and you will never have to download armors made for your own body on NXM, you will make them by yourself and share it here, as other members do, am I wrong ?

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