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[CLOSED] Project C.I.T.R.U.S. - Old WIP thread


blabba

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Hello again!

 

Your (hopefully) favorite Crazy Orange!

 

So here's a rundown of this project's name:

 

C = Completely
I = Innovative
      (and)
T = Technically
R = Realistic
U = Universal
S = System

 

Thanks to @Phygnos for coming up with fruit themed acronyms for me :D;)

If you'd like to make and send me more hilariously fun acronym names, just post here or join the chat link to tell me.

 

README/FAQ:

 

 

 

Q: What is the purpose of this mod?

A: This body mod is geared towards people who are currently unsatisfied with current body replacers and would like the ability to mix and match parts of body's or customize to make their own unique shape. This is done right now through the use of BodySlide sliders. It is not meant to match existing body shapes perfectly! If you like an existing body mod and do not want to tweak it, then this mod probably isn't something your interested in.

Early Visual Example

 

Q: Cool, can I ask/request sliders?

A: Yes! For slider requests, please add a post detailing what type of slider, and some reference photos or a reference model for the request to be considered.

 

Q: When/Where are the outfits for this?

A: This mod is BETA. It is not meant to be used with outfits yet as there are still some important details to iron out here and there.

 

Q: Beast Race Support?

A: In the future I will add it, be patient please.

 

Q: I have a weird foot bug issue

A: You didn't read the install instructions, get the latest XPMSE Alpha skeleton.

 

Q: When is this mod going to be done? It's been like a month man!

A: I'm only one person :(

 

Q: Hand textures are messed up for me

A: Hands use a new UV layout that Vioxsis made. I provide a fairly simple Mudbox texture conversion tutorial. On the 'release' version of CITRUS you will have an option to download a few textures 'packs' pre-converted of the top 3 textures (SG Renewal, Mature Skin and AntiWomagnot's 4k). I will only pre-convert these 3 textures due to having recieved permissions. I am not interested in going for more permission hunting, so I provided users with Mudbox guides and project files for them to DIY.

 

Q: What Texture Type does this body use?

A: UNP

 

Q: I used a UNP body texture, but their are some horrid seams at the thighs/waist

A: Can't be helped, UV was altered to make it fit and that is an unfortunate side-effect. You can easily fix with some clone-stamping or using other techniques in Photoshop/Mudbox.

 

Q: When can I convert Armours to this body type?

A: When I release this project as out of 'BETA' and place it in the downloads section here in LL. I'll have released conversion references as well so you can easily convert from major body types easily.

 

Q: I want a non-nude version.

A: A special nexus version with relevant sliders and non-nude option will be made later.

 

Q: What about vagina's/Pubes

A: Yea, they'll be added eventually.

 

Q: Futa Version?

A: Speak to my good friend Phygnos about that (I believe he's working on it)

 

Q: What type of HDT movement/ Scaling does the body come with?

A: My own settings called FLESH, basically it has Belly, Thighs, Calfs, Breasts and Butts.

 

Q: Will you do any form of male content?

A: No. I'm simply not interested.

 

BETA v4+ Installation:

 

1. (Optional) Download and install latest RaceMenu 3 Beta

2. Download and install XPMSE 2.30

3. Download and install latest HDT Physics Plugin (With Memory Plugin)

4. Download and install Citrus 4.0 BETA

5. Download and install UNP textures

6. (Optional) Download and install CITRUS Slide for morph support.

 

CITRUS ChangeLog:

 

1. UNP Hand and Feet Seams (Mesh Wise)

2. Hand meshes use vanilla UV layout now(No longer any need of Mudbox conversion guide to convert textures)

3. Hand and Feet nails see-through bug have been fixed

4. All new skinning for smoother animation deformations

5. Project FLESH integrations:

    - Added Calf Movement

    - Added Front Thigh Movement

    - Added Back Thigh Movement

6. New Breast Skinning for better scaling (Breast scaling for citrus should now be handled by the BreastScale bone and NOT the breast bones)

7. New Skinny baseshape to facilitate easier armour conversion processes as well as unify all morphs to be expanding (Remove the need of negative slider values in most cases)

8. Symmetrical Base Mesh (Users won't notice but modders will ;) )

12/22/14

1. Fixed Normals, their now put into the nif files correctly, and matched with CITRUS head normals as well. (You no longer need to set has normals to off in the meshes if using all CITRUS meshes)

2. Tweaked Hand/Feet Seams

3. Added CITRUS slide and some preliminary morphs

12/23/14

1. Added 2 Calf Morphs

2. Added 1 Knee Morph

3. Fixed UV's around the Nipples (I did it myself so it may or may not be done correctly)

1/07/15

1. Added a bunch of Morphs

2. Implemented UV Changes from @jacques00

3. Fixed Normal settings in Nif

1/31/15

1. Added 10 new Morphs

2. Fixed 4 existing Morphs

3. Fixed hand meshes

4. Something else I did that I cannot recall right now....

 

CITRUS HDT:

 

 

 

Inside the citrus folder their is a body.xml file that defines how the nude body will react with physics.

It CONTAINS NO COLLISION DATA! I will NOT provide collision data! (Due to various reasons)

 

If you do not like the additional Thigh/Calf effects at all you are free to edit them out, just delete all entries with thigh/calf in their names in the body.xml file.

If you do not want HDT at all, open the femalebody.nif and delete the NiStringExtraData branch, Or just do not install HDT.

 

It is highly suggested that you tweak the calfs and thigh values to suit your own animations better.

The key is to edit the CONSTRAINTS, you do not need to edit the rigidbody information (except for inertia tensors).

Go to the hkpGenericConstraints, find the linear amounts in the y-axis and tweak to your hearts content (if you want also try experimenting with angular constraints along the Z-axis)

 

 

 

CITRUS Issues:

 

1. MOAR MORPHS!

2. Finish Conversion References

3. Finish 3dsMax CITRUS guides/ Maxscript tools

HDT PE Mem Patch.rar

CITRUS 4.6.rar

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Sounds interesting but I think you are right on armor mods, though in theory if you could combine all the bodies into a slider. Seems you could do the same with the armors, so when you make the character it detects your choices and then picks the correct armors to match. Of course that would mean either loading a bunch of armor types making it a huge mod or making the armor morph to match the body as well, which would be the best way to handle it but likely be a lot of work.

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It would be nice if CHSBHC has its preset in Bodyslide and Outfit Studio.  :shy:

 

CHSBHC has been made into a slider preset ;)

Check the unofficial guide thread for cell's post or download the latest version of HDT body, it contains cell's fixes and new ADEC + CHSBHC conversion references.

 

Sounds interesting but I think you are right on armor mods, though in theory if you could combine all the bodies into a slider. Seems you could do the same with the armors, so when you make the character it detects your choices and then picks the correct armors to match. Of course that would mean either loading a bunch of armor types making it a huge mod or making the armor morph to match the body as well, which would be the best way to handle it but likely be a lot of work.

 

I think I may have stumbled onto a 'shortcut' for Pre-made conversions in Outfit Studio. Since a lot of currently made armors are already 'fitted' much better than stock OS can provide, I believe I can come up with a method to 'link' conversions made into a slider (.bsd) file, that way modders can still use their already existing well known fitted 3DSmax/Blender conversions but then reduce the size of download/install into an all-in-one by making it a slider transform.

 

As for the loading a bunch of armors, that's not how OS/BodySlide work, it stores vertex transformation data inside 'slider' files (.bsd) which are relatively small in size anywhere from 10kb to maybe 500kb for each. This is a lot more compressed than re-downloading a bunch of .nifs and textures. Also allows for a lot more customizability. Hell, if modders want to speed up their 'workflow' they can come up with a slider solely for their conversion purposes. Or even apply custom clothing effects (Like push-up effect for corsets, I made a topic about that already, feel free to search it if interested)

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Hehehe, I got a greenlight from Cell on this and I'm doing some 'light' work on it currently.

 

I decided I'd use the 7base Bombshell Body,as it has the most vertices of the 'popular' body replacers I found. A good amount of sliders work out of the box, I'll need to completely overhaul nipple sliders though <_<

 

Also using some funky tool called wrapit, I can make 'conversion' references to other bodies.

The Good thing about this:

All the Conversion references will now contain upgraded poly counts

More vertices for users to make sliders out of and play with

More compatibility with ripping sliders from current body mods

More verts also mean 'smoother' weights are possible!

Textures should be compatible (whatever was labelled 7Base should be anyway)

 

The Bad thing about this:

Upgraded poly Counts means you need better hardware to run it...

I am unsure if the newer hands and feet meshes will be needed for compatibility?

Loss of small seam and ankle sliders until I figure out/receive aid in lock seam sliders...

 

On a Side Note:

Anyone know of a good 7base bombshell texture?

Or are UNP textures compatible?

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While I applaud at the massive effort you have put into it, I think it may be unnecessary. I'm all for customization and personalizing things, but I think (and this is just my opinion) that the level of customization granted by this is just too much. As it is, there's already a huge selection of body mods out there. As you mentioned, converting armors or clothing for these bodyslide-made bodies is going to be pain in the ass. I have no idea how bodyslide compatible armors work as I've never used it to begin with, but I'd imagine it isn't fun.

 

I don't mean to strike you down, as you've done an amazing job so far, but I feel might be too much. Perhaps I feel that way because I'm satisfied with the way released bodies look.

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While I applaud at the massive effort you have put into it, I think it may be unnecessary. I'm all for customization and personalizing things, but I think (and this is just my opinion) that the level of customization granted by this is just too much. As it is, there's already a huge selection of body mods out there. As you mentioned, converting armors or clothing for these bodyslide-made bodies is going to be pain in the ass. I have no idea how bodyslide compatible armors work as I've never used it to begin with, but I'd imagine it isn't fun.

 

I don't mean to strike you down, as you've done an amazing job so far, but I feel might be too much. Perhaps I feel that way because I'm satisfied with the way released bodies look.

 

xD

 

Yea, I agree with you their.

 

Turns out that for now, all I'm really doing is just making a '7Base' BodySlide with more unique sliders because I have more verts to play with.

Chances are I'll never go into making a 'universal' body sytem like I originally intended to. It's too much work as you suggested for 1 person, and I'd much rather focus on other projects and ideas I've got going on in my wacked up head :P

 

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On a Side Note:

Or are UNP textures compatible?

 

That has been asked like over 9000 times, 7B is a "member" of the UNP familiy, ofcourse all UNP textures will work.

 

Anyway....good luck, this will be awesome when its done! I find 7B already perfect for my taste so this won't be of any use for me. However the body textures would be a problem since CBBE / UNP / Others all have different UV's........ :s

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It would be nice if CHSBHC has its preset in Bodyslide and Outfit Studio.  :shy:

 

I think I may have stumbled onto a 'shortcut' for Pre-made conversions in Outfit Studio. Since a lot of currently made armors are already 'fitted' much better than stock OS can provide, I believe I can come up with a method to 'link' conversions made into a slider (.bsd) file, that way modders can still use their already existing well known fitted 3DSmax/Blender conversions but then reduce the size of download/install into an all-in-one by making it a slider transform.

 

It would be great if the default conversion meshes contained a add well-weighted dress/skirt, maybe a tunic, and a cape. This would be useful for both conforming and weight-copying.

 

The real magic starts when Outfit Studio supports multiple conversion references at once, like using 75% skirt with 25% body after conforming to both references. It's been possible to do semi-manually for a long time with my script, but it's very tedious, and I never bothered to automate this simply because it's tedious to implement and really needs some visual feedback to check which ratio works best.

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It would be great if the default conversion meshes contained a add well-weighted dress/skirt, maybe a tunic, and a cape. This would be useful for both conforming and weight-copying.

 

The real magic starts when Outfit Studio supports multiple conversion references at once, like using 75% skirt with 25% body after conforming to both references. It's been possible to do semi-manually for a long time with my script, but it's very tedious, and I never bothered to automate this simply because it's tedious to implement and really needs some visual feedback to check which ratio works best.

 

 

O.o

 

I've been getting around that in Outfit Studio for things like piercings by making a high-poly 3-D Box with the desired conversion weights and the slider files from them (aka bodyslideable piercings) with pretty good success. But then again I will not deny it's tedious work and most of it was actually done by Vioxsis xD

 

I think you could do something similar (at least for capes, and maybe skirts) by using a 'body' Box (or a 'skirt' cone) and weight those correctly. You could even add specific 'clothing' sliders for it. So users would load Cape reference, and then after that was over, they would load the body reference, something like that.

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I think you could do something similar (at least for capes, and maybe skirts) by using a 'body' Box (or a 'skirt' cone) and weight those correctly. You could even add specific 'clothing' sliders for it. So users would load Cape reference, and then after that was over, they would load the body reference, something like that.

 

 

No need for separate meshes. Only thing required is to add 2-3 more shapes to the reference mesh, shapes like

dress or cape, then let the user select when they load the reference. That's what the Reference shape selection box

is for, but so far the reference mesh only includes a body. Maybe I'll do this myself unless someone beats me to it.

 

In the meantime, any well-weighted Bodyslide outfit of similar shape makes a good reference, often better than

the body. But you have to choose, to actually mix slider data is still tedious. But yet possible from within Outfit Studio:

 1. conform to one reference (i.e. body) and save project

 2. reload and conform to another reference

 3. for each relevant slider, add a temporary slider, load a previous shape from step 1,

     find a good mix of both (make sure they add up to about 100%), fix clipping, coalesce sliders

4. save project, and rename new sliders manually

 

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Thought I should update.

 

Vioxsis and I are just brainstorming ideas right now about making a 'universal' body system again where it's basically a pretty good high-poly body that can easily be re-topologized to copy current (and possibly future) body replacers to make it all BodySlideable and 'mimicable' so it's easier for Outfit Conversions and such. (As Well as more customizations body options)

 

After experimenting with a higher poly 7base body and others, as well as feedback from stuffed_bunny it seems that re-imagining a blank body would be the 'quality' ensured course to go through, even though it might be the 'longer' route. But hell, I'll be happy if something like this gets done. Any advice from other modder's certainly helpful!

 

Also thanks to all of you already with your feedback ^^

 

(I hope Vioxsis doesn't get mad at me for making this update public :ph34r: )

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The Bad thing about this:

Upgraded poly Counts means you need better hardware to run it...

 

 

That's a common misconception, but what really stresses modern hardware is the textures, not the poly counts. Modern graphics cards are very good at drawing triangles, which is what poly's are made of. So simply going up on the poly counts while keeping everything else the same will have only a very small impact.

 

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...hmmm

Bodyslide VS LadyBody ? ...

 

If the current 2.1 or even the WIP v3 were to go slider happy it would be pure win all round, but it has vague support and limelight as well as being fairly restricted I think?

 

One of the best of the best but just has a select few armors the main author creates for it. Unlike your UNP's and CBBE's which have hundereds of shapes and armors to find.

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Yea, originally bounced ideas about using a modified lady body, but the permissions for it are hellto get,author has issues with nexusand here.

 

Also for the purposes bodyslide customization, starting from sorta scratch seemed to be better.

 

The new body Vioxsis is making is looking really good, and he was able to get the uv map to be unp based, so unp textures will work.

 

We are also maybe thinking of new hand,feet and maybe(?) head models though that would be a lot of work.

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The Bad thing about this:

Upgraded poly Counts means you need better hardware to run it...

 

 

That's a common misconception, but what really stresses modern hardware is the textures, not the poly counts. Modern graphics cards are very good at drawing triangles, which is what poly's are made of. So simply going up on the poly counts while keeping everything else the same will have only a very small impact.

 

 

This is just a theory, but what might stress the system with a high-poly model is not mainly the gpu

handling more triangles, but the cpu calculating how to animate all those vertices.

 

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This is just a theory, but what might stress the system with a high-poly model is not mainly the gpu

handling more triangles, but the cpu calculating how to animate all those vertices.

 

I would imagine keyframe animations are now optimized to be run off the GPU in game engines (complete speculation on my part though)

 

But for physics effects or free-form manipulation (like collisions and whatnot) it would depend on the physics engine as well but seeing as skyrim is using havok, then I would imagine stuffed_bunny has a valid point that the increased triangles could drastically decrease performance.

 

Also, to make my post not completely irrelevant and to show off Vioxsis amazing hard work, a few screens of the new body still under construction.

 

All credit goes to Vioxsis for these meshes and screens!

 

Here's a comparison mesh screen, pink = the new blank slate body being built, blue = original 7base and CBadvanced bodies

 

 

2f2.jpg

 

 

 

Here's one showing the serious difference in detail between the new 'blank slate' and the original CBAdvanced body:

 

 

CBA.jpg

 

 

 

As you can see, using the same blank slate mesh Vioxsis was able to accurately reproduce the shapes for CBAdvanced and 7base with no loss of detail (and much quicker as well).

 

Tests still need to be done on how well it will conform using retopology tools as well as a bunch of other things to be considered. But I can definitely see this going somewhere :)

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I don't think I can understate how excited I am about the idea of a universal body mesh.  It's looking really nice thus far.  The extra vertices and detail is very appreciated -- do you think the vertex density is about where it will be once finished?  Or are you looking/hoping to add even a bit more? :D

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