[Wip] Intimacy Project

[t3589]

Glad that i asked. I don't mind if it gets hard, i just made for myself the assumption that in the fallout world expect a few good guys like the goodspring people probably wouldn't care much about rape unless they  become the victim themselves. So i thought unless you try to rape someone important you probably wouldn't have much consequences because the ncr-legion war or threatening powder gangers are more of a concern than if the pc rapes a peasant. But now that i think about it expect for the fiends which are hated by everyone else your approach is probably more to the fallout lore than mine.

 

Well I've been thinking for some time about how to implement evasion options.  I do agree that it wouldn't make sense for the game to be its own witness to secret atrocities when it comes to evil player actions. ie.  The PC shouldn't be perceived by NPCs as a rapist just because they are one necessarily, at least until you're caught in the act/leave witnesses/evidence behind.  Options that allow you to 'cover your tracks' so to speak would be required to get the full experience of playing an evil char. imo

 

Also, a rapist is a threat to the stability of communities.  Even if they aren't a 'moral' community, they would see it as a priority based on self preservation.  Especially if they have girlfriends, wives, or daughters.

 

If the community were an evil community like the fiends, they may see it as a priority based on the logic: Just because someone is evil, doesn't mean they'll give you a pass when you commit crimes on their turf or against them and theirs.  Just a thought.

[t3589]

Alright I'm going to chalk todays session up to learning.  I've cleaned up a lot of the code and made it more modular.  I've even improved one of the approach mechs, but broke the stalker approach.  I've learned a lot tonight, but I've also failed a lot.

 

I could probably fix things up using a bunch of lists, but as I see it I'm beginning to re-write a lot of what's already been done in other mods.  It's becoming clear to me that it would be a lot less work to tie other mods in and borrow their features using buildref and/or MCM toggles.

 

Right now I'm thinking to borrow SexoutAssault with buildref.  Then track it and just add an MCM toggle to use Intimacy dialogue options in it.  I'll have to pick through it really good just to make sure it's the right decision.  I'm worried that it will not be able to do some of the things I have planned later on and I'll just end up writing my own rape system anyway.

 

We'll find out one way or another.

 

Edit: And of course, 10 minutes after I posted I figured out a way to make it work without other mods and with little work.  Back on track now.

 

I've also added this as a concept: "Look into a way for nearby good alignments, based on bravery and threat level to rescue victims (interupt only)."

 

I wouldn't mind if they actually went into combat, but I'm worried that it could get uber crazy.  Any thoughts?

[dizzyman]

Exciting stuff.  I've been daydreaming for some time about combining something like Fallout/Skyrim with something like The Sims 3 (in some ways that game achieves 'a lot with a little' - which is something I love to see).  Plus the most fun I think I've had with NPCs was in the game Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 (you could greatly influence/change them, plus they were interesting).  Another thing is simulating psychological consequences on the player character, could be really cool, but extremely easy to make design mistakes with things like that.

 

For me, thinking about this mod feels like staring into a bottomless pit of question marks and considerations; in large part because I don't know how it will work technically, or what *could* work.  I think this is a case where figuring out the best way to go about it is the biggest part of the dev process - and questions lead to more questions...

 

I think the fame/infamy mechanic in Oblivion would come in handy here.  When NPCs are deciding how to interact with you, it would change things a lot.  Sounds like you're doing a rep system though.

 

I agree that triggering combat from a rescue would often get crazy, maybe just interrupt and start a dialogue that might lead to combat.  Maybe run a flee package on the victim or aggressor (potentially depending on various things).  There's also the fact that it wouldn't always be apparent that the sex was actually rape (maybe a cry for help ability).

[t3589]

@dizzyman - It's easy to get excited about feature lists. lol  I wanted a mod like this because I'm tired of ScrewFesting.  For me, the sex aspect often just gets in my way.  I find myself waiting for it to be over so I can get back to playing the game.  The goal is to make the 'sex' in Sexout less of a novelty, and more of an ingrediant to a rich compelling play experience.

 

I thought about internal consequences on the player at first, but I want to allow the player to choose how things effect them.  I'm going to try my best not to impose on the player by letting them decide how they feel about things where applicable and practicle.

 

10-4 on bottomless pit. lol  I couldn't have said it better.  This mod will probably be WIP well into next year, but we'll shoot for the moon and see what comes out the other end.  The most important personal lesson I think I learned in doing the SOSReplacer mod was not to be in such a hurry.  So it will probably start out very basic on release and then little by little we'll get there.

 

What I would love is to colaborate with the community when I get to the dialogue part.  I'll probably hand out a text file with some guidelines that others can submit for me to include their dialogue ideas.  In that respect this mod will never truly be finished until people stop submitting new dialogue.

 

I've never tried modding Oblivion, though I did play it with Lovers until I was tired of swords and sorcerers.  I'm going to try and use features already built into the game as much as possible though.

 

Good points all on the combat.  I never thought of rape not being apparent which could add some nice twists.  Call for help is a great idea.

[t3589]

I'm having trouble deciding on how to factor in enemies.  I can exclude them from approaches, that's easy enough.  The question is 'should' they be excluded?  Of course they're not going to try and pick you up, but it makes sense that an enemy would stalk you.  I'm just wondering if this will present a problem in respects to aggro.  I don't want the approach mech to turn into a 'bring all my enemies to me so they can start combat' mech.

 

Any advice or ideas are welcome?

[janoorn]

maybe check if player has a weapon drawn, if he has normal, if not they might appoach

[dizzyman]

I try to make Fallout more like the game S.T.A.L.K.E.R. in terms of NPC 'free roaming' as much as I realistically can.  I use a mod called Endless Warfare which adds many customizable spawn points, to reduce NPC predictability (I also turn off music, sneak messages, and NPC compass ticks - and don't use companions usually).  I think enemies included in approaches can enhance this.

 

Although, even with using the major Sexout approach mods, I can't recall a time when an enemy wandered over to me.  Maybe it happened and I didn't realise a Sexout mod had caused it.

 

Sounds like something that could be easily made optional though.

[t3589]

If I remember right SexoutAssassin or maybe it was another mod touted something like this, in that you could avoid combat via seductuon.  Which means someone must have had an idea how to process enemies.  I'll look into it.

[BruceWayne]

 

Dialog packages: word was that they're less reliable in dealing with cell transitions than travel + startconversation, I believe - otherwise, for the few things I used them for, they didn't do me wrong.

 

Thank you sir.  I needed someone with more experience to reassure me a little.

 

 

 

IIRC in addition to cell transitions, packages do have sometimes problems with savegames. For instance, if you save your game while the package is running but not yet finished and load that save later, there is a chance that NPCs forget about that package and choose whatever package is eligible instead. So unless you put in some safeguards to ensure they run again when reloading a game, travel and startconversation are preferrable options.

 

Anyway, good to see you around again. This definitely sounds like a very interesting project. 

[t3589]

 

IIRC in addition to cell transitions, packages do have sometimes problems with savegames. For instance, if you save your game while the package is running but not yet finished and load that save later, there is a chance that NPCs forget about that package and choose whatever package is eligible instead. So unless you put in some safeguards to ensure they run again when reloading a game, travel and startconversation are preferrable options.

 

Anyway, good to see you around again. This definitely sounds like a very interesting project. 

 

 

I found that out the hard way already. lol  Interior doors in between the actor running the package and the target also toss a glitch depending upon certain package flags.  So far I'm only using them for approaches so it's currently OK if they self terminate either due to reloading a save or leaving the area (this is what I wanted).  I'll keep this in mind though if I begin to use them to start a conversation that must be completed as part of a storyline.

 

Thanks for the advice, and am glad to be back thank you.

 

You say sounds very interesting, but don't you really mean overly optimistic? lol  I've already heard the term 'bottomless pit' applied.

[BruceWayne]

That is about the highest extent of enthusiasm I'm capable of. It wasn't my intention to imply anything else.. 

 

[t3589]

OK, I think I've figured out a way to rescue the player from rape.  It will work something like: Rape begins, PC cries for help if the rape was resisted (not on submit), companions/allies/friends/good aligned will come running to the rescue, if they reach you in time they'll stop the rape.

 

- Companions will always help if they are near.

- Allies/Friends/Good Alignments will only help if a. They perceive the rapist as either an equal or lower threat level. and b. They are not a coward (Confidence).

 

Question:

- How far away should PC cry for help be ignored?  I'm thinking LOS currently which can vary on game settings, so outside 2000 - 3000 something like that?  I want it to make sense.

[t3589]

Well back to the drawing board.  Need to write my own scanner it seems.  NG scanner only ever scans the same people over and over again.  It never moves on to the next person in the room.  So for example it picks the first person it finds in the room, and only ever applies the scan script conditions to that individual.  Even the next time it scans, it picks that person again.

 

If someone knows that's the way it's supposed to work, then I'll just drop the NG scanner and write my own. If not, then I'll need to figure out why it isn't iterating through the actors in the cell.  Either way, I'm stuck in the mud until I get this part working.

[DoctaSax]

My guess is your formlist walk isn't getting done, or done right. The spell you supply to the scanner's spell list is only ever cast on the player. The actors it detects are put in the formlist you supply to it. You use the spell script to walk through your formlist, doing what needs done to the actors it holds, and removing each actor from it once you're done with him/her/it.

[t3589]

My guess is your formlist walk isn't getting done, or done right. The spell you supply to the scanner's spell list is only ever cast on the player. The actors it detects are put in the formlist you supply to it. You use the spell script to walk through your formlist, doing what needs done to the actors it holds, and removing each actor from it once you're done with him/her/it.

 

OK did some testing using Prides tutorial here:  http://www.loverslab.com/topic/14221-sexoutng/page-81

 

 

 

int init
int nCount
int nIndex
ref scanner

; loop label vars
int whileClear
int whileLoop

Begin ScriptEffectStart
  if (0 == init)
    ; Prevent this block from running more than once, I have seen it happen on occasion
    set init to 1
    
    ; Each while label var must have a different number.  In fact, you can just use
    ; numbers if you want with no vars for the Label and Goto statements.  Vars just
    ; make it easier to read.
    set whileClear to 1
    set whileLoop to 2
    ; Loop through the form list
    set nCount to ListGetCount SexoutIntimacyScanTargets
    set nIndex to 0
    Label whileLoop
    if (nIndex < nCount)
      set scanner to ListGetNthForm SexoutIntimacyScanTargets nIndex
      
      printc "nIndex %.0f" nIndex
      printc "nCount %.0f" nCount
      
      set nIndex to nIndex + 1
    endif
    ; End looping

    ; We're done, clear out the formlist.
    set nCount to ListGetCount SexoutIntimacyScanTargets
    Label whileClear
    if (nCount > 0)
      ; Remove the first item
      ListRemoveNth SexoutIntimacyScanTargets 0

      ; Get a new count to use in the if statement
      set nCount to ListGetCount SexoutIntimacyScanTargets
      
      ; Go back to the if statement
      goto whileClear
    endif
  endif
End

Begin ScriptEffectUpdate
  if (1 == init)
    ; If we make it here, we are finished.  Dispel ourself
    RemoveMe
  endif
End

 

 

 

This doesn't work.  And you're right it isn't stepping at all. Confirmed nCount is correct so everyone is in the list.  Confirmed the nCount is changing up and down (clearing?) as I move through cells.  But nIndex never moves from 0 and I haven't got a clue why.  Please tell me it's something dumb and easy.

[jaam]

Where is the GOTO WhileLoop ?

First off, work in reverse always, starting with nIndex = nCount - 1, so that when you remove an entry all others are not shifted down and you don't need to recount your formlist on evrey loop.

And it also means you can use and remove in the same loop.

[DoctaSax]

Yeah, that looks like an older approach - Slavery & Lust I think also use a fowards loop

 

But this looks like the easiest option:

		Set iCnt to ListGetCount List
		Label 1
		if iCnt > 0
			Set iCnt to iCnt - 1
			Set rActor to ListGetNthForm List iCnt
			; do shit
			listRemoveNthForm List iCnt
                goto 1
		endif

		

... for the moment

[jaam]

THe goto should be before the endif, I think

[DoctaSax]

It should? Lol, I put it like that at first, & then thought "that can't be right, let's respect the if-block"

I think I'll be using a while loop next time.

[jaam]

The compiler/interpreter doesn't care at all for jumping out of blocks, on the other end, like that you get an infinite loop! The worst kind.

 

[DoctaSax]

D'oh! That infinite loop's staring me right in the face now

[t3589]

Not so pro tip: Never try to make sense of something when you're fighting to keep your eyes open.

 

Thank you both.  Fixed using the backwards count method with half the amount of code.

 

Rape rescues now work as intended.  The current max distance that rescuers will hear your cry for help is 1024 interior and 2048 wasteland.  At the moment these are rather arbitrary as I just set them to test with.  If anyone has any suggestions for a distance that makes more sense, chime in please?

 

Moving on to try for a more varied bribery amount.  I'm thinking of maybe giving several amounts as options and then using the barter skill to get away with lower amounts?  So the higher your barter skill is, the lower amount of bribe you can get away with.  Any ideas/comments?

[xboronx]

Moving on to try for a more varied bribery amount.  I'm thinking of maybe giving several amounts as options and then using the barter skill to get away with lower amounts?  So the higher your barter skill is, the lower amount of bribe you can get away with.  Any ideas/comments?

 

Sounds good to me. Maybe you could enable 2-3 rounds of bartering to get a "arabian bazaar" feel. For raping it is probably overexcessive, but since you also plan to include prostitution there some good haggling at least i would enjoy, something like:

client: i offer 50 caps for a fuck

whore: even a blowjob costs already 70 caps

client: if i eat your pussy first and pay 80 caps, may i fuck you then?

whore: make it 100 caps and we have a deal

client: sigh, ok, hope you're worth my hard earned caps

[t3589]

Just finished bribery.  Here's how it works currently:

- You need at least a barter skill of 10 for bribe to show as an option.

- You also need to posses enough caps for bribe to show as an option.

- At Barter 10 you pay 1600Caps.

- At Barter 40 you pay 800Caps.

- At barter 55 you pay 400Caps.

- At Barter 70 you pay 200Caps.

- At Barter 80 you pay 100Caps.

 

Any gripes?

 

@xboronx - Good idea.  I'll add 'haggle' to the list for prostitution.

 

 

 

[t3589]

Moving on to sex crimes committed by the player.

Here's what I'm thinking:

- This must track all rapes by the player.
Reasoning: I don't see the point in doing a bunch of work if people will simply circumvent the effects by using Assaults rape key.

- PC must take a karma hit for raping.
Reasoning: Karma is a witness to itself.  'What goes around, comes around' applies whether or not you're discovered as a rapist.

- PC must take a Faction hit to the victims faction, but not right away.
Reasoning: This would make sense - If you leave the victim alive, they're going to talk, and their faction is likely to believe them.  Granted without other witnesses corroborating their story it's a matter of he said she said.  But because of the mechanics of the game, you can't murder them to keep them silent, because the game will give you a faction hit anyway.

Therefore I propose the following:
- When the PC and the victim are in the same faction, if the PC rank is higher than the victims in that faction, no faction hit will occur. (This is questionable because I don't know how detailed FNV gets with faction ranks.  I remember reading somewhere that it doesn't 'really' use them, but then again my memory isn't what it used to be.)

- When PC rapes, the faction hit goes into a 'pool' and isn't applied immediately.  This pool builds until the player is caught in the act via a successful 'rape rescue', at which point all faction hits in the pool are applied retroactively to ALL factions that have been victimized. ie. We thought that guy was a monster all along and now we're certain of it.

- While the PC is not caught, a. If a victim dies(thru no fault of the PC) before the PC is 'discovered' their faction hits are removed from the pool. and b. PC has the dialogue option to call the victim a liar to other members of the victims faction, which can remove hits from the pool.

- If the pool contains X number of factions (ie. too many), if the PC is caught they receive a perk similar to the cannibal perk making them a pariah, instead of the faction hits in the pool.

- If the faction does not track crime, you only receive a karma hit.


Poke holes in it guys.