Devious Devices - Integration 4.3a (2019-09-10)

[Darkpig]

6 minutes ago, Kimy said:

I literally stopped reading

hmmmm...

7 minutes ago, Kimy said:

By talking to me.

hmmmm...?

[Inte]

@Kimy,

The idles was just one suggestion.

 

The versioning, yes that does not really affect my mods at all, I was just simply pointing out how laughable it is implemented now. Three different version numbers? Wow, that’s brilliant! You should put a different version number on every script, that will show new modders ‘another practice’. Since it doesn’t really matter how you implement your versioning, you can and should do it the way it feels most familiar to you. But this is a framework, I was hopping to spare new modders seeing that, and then copying that ‘practice’ into their own mod. But whatever, I will not bring it up again. 

The more pressing issues were the mech suit and the dialogue, actually. 

Like I said, I cannot implement the new mech suit with what the framework provides atm. 
You are wandering why no one is willing to contribute to DDi? Look at what you are putting me through just to add 2 lines of code to the function ‘LookupDeviceType(keyword kwd)’ which would allow me to implement a new device properly without the players getting an error message every time it is equipped. 

 

For the dialogue, I have not found a mod that does what DDi 3 did. Yes, I’ve tried your suggestion, that mod only works with followers. So just add it back, everything needed is already there which makes it a fairly simple task.  
 

13 hours ago, Kimy said:

But in all these years of developing DD, NOBODY outside of the DD team has contributed an idle, and more idles are not on our roadmap.

Well, seeing your attitude towards new content and suggestions, why would they?

 

13 hours ago, Kimy said:

In return, my implementation gives modders full control over the existing idles WITHOUT touching code. You can make your device use a specific one if you want to, just by editing properties. That's an advantage your solution does NOT have.

Again, that's a plain lie.

You either do not understand my solution’s coding or have not even bothered to read what I’ve been saying all along. Read my posts again (you can open spoilers by clicking them ).

My solution does everything yours does now, PLUS it allows for mass management of all common idles and other properties (future or present) with the touch of a button. With my solution IF the modders DO NOT WANT TO TOUCH THE CODE and instead prefer to just edit the properties, they can do just that. I don't know how to make it any clearer than this, so I do not understand how you fail to grasp this.

If my solution was implemented on the DDi base devices instead of yours, all modders would have to do, is clone those devices and fill in the properties like they do now.  

 

13 hours ago, Kimy said:

I have a tendency of shooting down suggestions if they mean a lot of work with little or questionable return, ...

No, it seems to me that you are shooting down suggestions that have a questionable return for you. 

 

13 hours ago, Kimy said:

If one day I get so swamped in idles...

Right... but you know that would never happen, seeing how you block everything new from being created for DDi, “...more idles are not on our roadmap.” was it? So who in their right mind would even start?

 

13 hours ago, Kimy said:

...that I feel cannot add them manually to properties anymore,...

That’s just it, this is not about YOU or at least it shouldn’t be. ALL mods would need to add them, this is about making it easier for them by doing it the right way to start. 

 

 

I did not intend to write another wall of text because well frankly, it is pointless with you, but there it is. 

[Kimy]

If you still don't know how to implement your suit with the existing framework, you need to get a clue about coding, really. I am not sure how often I need to tell you how to implement it, but it did. Twice. Apparently you don't get it, and you either don't have the talent or don't want to get it, because picking silly fights with me is obviously what you're after, not a constructive solution. I honestly tried really hard to be nice, even given our past exchanges. But all I got back from you were the usual attacks on me as a person and my "attitude".

So let's make that simple. Because that's going down the same road it always does when having exchanges with you. I tried time and again to play nice with you, even when I should know that the result will always be a fight about version numbers or similarly stupid stuff people argue about when they don't have anything of substance to argue about, but still want to argue.

 

I am done.

 

Your users were sad that they no longer could use PO with DCL and I felt sympathetic, so I was willing to work with you on a solution. That's honestly the only reason I was talking to you, after vowing that I never would again. But that's it, and this time for good.

 

I will never, ever react to any of your postings again. Or even read them. There is a time when enough is enough. And I honestly believe the proverbial chimps with typewriters could deliver more useful input than you ever could, so it's not a big loss.

 

The only people I feel sorry about is your users.

[JuliusXX]

It's sometimes hard to believe that this site has age limit of 18 years.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, Kimy said:

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Not only does it require a lot more work, but how would he ever get those animations into DD?

By talking to me. Stunning thought, I know!

 

I literally stopped reading your post there.

Perhaps it's best you didn't read it then.

 

But if you want pleasant civil discourse on this forum, being quite so dismissive and condescending doesn't seem to be setting an ideal example.

 

 

Perhaps if you'd read beyond the first line of my post, you'd have realised that it supported your conclusion, if not your reasoning?

 

 

There's something terribly unfair and asymmetric, to claim that people just need to ask you, and anything is possible. Because sometimes, when they ask, what they get is a dismissal of their requirements, the idea behind their requirements, their proposed solution, and their personality for ever daring to raise such a request in the first place.

 

That doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens even once, that's a powerful disincentive for anyone that happens to notice what took place.

 

What do you suppose are the real chances anyone with an actual mod will even consider asking about some new DD feature this week?

If they were thinking of it, I suspect they have abandoned raising the topic for the time being, because now is clearly not a good time to ask.

 

I don't think that kind of climate encourages requests, even if the reality is that you could be favourable to them.

[Lupine00]

48 minutes ago, JuliusXX said:

It's sometimes hard to believe that this site has age limit of 18 years.

I'm a three year-old AI forum bot that runs on AWS as a collection of lambdas and hadoop instances. But in human years that makes me 48!

[DonQuiWho]

On 5/4/2019 at 2:51 AM, donkeywho said:

@Kimy

 

A quick query re the 'New "Unconscious " idles', if I may?

 

I'm trying to work out what is the cause of my PC regularly collapsing to the ground in either a seated state, or a lying down curled up position

 

When this happens in the middle of a Sexlab scene, it breaks the paired animation, and one of the actors keeps doing his or her thing, but the PC just sits there

 

Sometimes it happens when the PC is mounted, and they then make it onto the horse, sometimes immediately standing straight up, and sometimes, in a crouched position.  I have so far found it impossible to remove them from the horse, even with my normally trusty solution which is to activate Field Alchemy, and break whatever animation is screwing up the PC.  That it's this 'lie down' animation is easy to check if I save the game and run it twice from the same point, as on horseback the game does the weird stuff, and if the PC goes on foot, she just sits down. 

 

Getting up from the ground requires a spacebar input to jump up

 

I can't think what else in my load order might be doing this, so the query is

 

 - does what I am describing fit any of the animation outcomes from DDi events?

 

 - if it does, any idea why it overrides normal SexLab activities

 

I'll try and get a screendump of what I see for you, in case it helps

 

TIA if you have any ideas at all - or anyone else has, for that matter ?

 

EDIT Pic now attached

Hi again, folks

 

While the discussion of future trends makes for exciting reading, I have a more boring problem in my game in the here and now, which might have been overlooked in the flame and smoke

 

Is there anyone out there able to help me, please, with any clues, suggestions, etc or othe advice?  Even if it is just to tell grandad to go away and take his meds?

 

TIA

 

?

[Zaflis]

2 hours ago, donkeywho said:

- does what I am describing fit any of the animation outcomes from DDi events?

No, it sounds like this is 1 of those special/weird cases that don't happen to anyone else. Your Skyrim could be broken or you have a mod that doesn't behave well. It kind of looks like some defeat condition. Dragonborn in Distress triggers that kind of sitting at least, and that mod can defeat you. Maybe you set your health/mana/stamina tolerances wrong way?

[JuliusXX]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I'm a three year-old AI forum bot that runs on AWS as a collection of lambdas and hadoop instances. But in human years that makes me 48!

Youngster ?

[DonQuiWho]

2 hours ago, Zaflis said:

No, it sounds like this is 1 of those special/weird cases that don't happen to anyone else. Your Skyrim could be broken or you have a mod that doesn't behave well. It kind of looks like some defeat condition. Dragonborn in Distress triggers that kind of sitting at least, and that mod can defeat you. Maybe you set your health/mana/stamina tolerances wrong way?

That's possible .... I have been trying out the various combat defeat mods in the course of this game to see which one really best fits my style

 

Ran DiD in the first instance.  Got that sit down effect while DiD had a Troll oversee the PC for 24 in game hours.  But found DiD didn't seem to like some of the characters from Nexus' EnemyPlus.  In some cases PC would get beaten up, but would CTD before any SexLab activity started, with the end of the log full of unsuccessful attempts to surrender.   Presumably DiD didn't recocognise the races or something similar.  So I disabled DiD surrender and tried other defeat type mods, but the game still seems plagued by that recurrent 'sit down'.  Had thought it wasn't from DiD as that has no anims - so thought I'd try here.  You've made me wonder now if there is a suspicion that it might be a hangover from DiD, in that the PC still shows one of its effects, Addiction, as being a visible 'active effect' effect.  Maybe it's that that's causing this.  I'll ask there so as not to clog up this thread

 

Thanks for the helpful reply

 

 

[Kimy]

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

There's something terribly unfair and asymmetric, to claim that people just need to ask you, and anything is possible. Because sometimes, when they ask, what they get is a dismissal of their requirements, the idea behind their requirements, their proposed solution, and their personality for ever daring to raise such a request in the first place.

As hard as this is probably to believe after the last few pages, but I accept way more suggestions than I shoot down. I guess in the end it's just that some people make better and more reasonable suggestions than others. You can probably confirm this statement by looking at DCL and counting how many of your suggestions actually made it in! I would say, a lot. But then, you didn't start at least THREE fights with me over changing my versioning system.

 

That people have to talk to me if they want me to add stuff to MY mods i's the most normal thing in the world. I never claimed that I will add everything if people just ask me. That's a gross misinterpretation of what I wrote. You asked me how people are supposed to make suggestions and contributions. And the answer is and was "talk to me". Of course, the answer might be "no". There is no such thing as a right to add your stuff to my mods. There is no right to make me work on your ideas. I will accept or reject suggestions at my own discretion, and since that's nothing special at all, people should expect that.

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

That doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens even once, that's a powerful disincentive for anyone that happens to notice what took place.

I have been maintaining DCL for almost 5 years now, and DD for..three, I guess? People who are invested enough in DD content that they consider making contributions probably know by now what sorts of suggestion have a good chance to make it in, and which sort does not. I even have a paragraph about what I am looking for and what not in DCL. People also probably have realized by now that while I always have and always will value suggestions and contributions, I don't react all that well if people drag me into a endless fights after I already said no (which I never do without stating the reason). If people go and on and on and on, and make me write endless strings of postings about a thing I already shot down, they are wasting my time and I find that disrespectful. I get that everyone thinks that their idea is the best thing since sliced bread. But when I disagree and say no, I expect people to accept that and move on.

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

What do you suppose are the real chances anyone with an actual mod will even consider asking about some new DD feature this week?

If they were thinking of it, I suspect they have abandoned raising the topic for the time being, because now is clearly not a good time to ask.

 

I don't think that kind of climate encourages requests, even if the reality is that you could be favourable to them.

I am only human, you know? If people throw an endless supply of crap at me, there will be a point when I just had enough. I guess, I brushed you off a bit harsher than you deserved, but you have to admit that the timing of throwing more criticism about how I am handling DD into an already ongoing dispute was a bit less than ideal.

 

The honest answer to your question? Let me cool off for the rest of the weekend and then start making suggestions again!

 

Just not about version numbers, please.

[Zaflis]

1 hour ago, donkeywho said:

But found DiD didn't seem to like some of the characters from Nexus' EnemyPlus.  In some cases PC would get beaten up, but would CTD before any SexLab activity started, with the end of the log full of unsuccessful attempts to surrender.   Presumably DiD didn't recocognise the races or something similar.  So I disabled DiD surrender and tried other defeat type mods, but the game still seems plagued by that recurrent 'sit down'.  Had thought it wasn't from DiD as that has no anims - so thought I'd try here.

Even when you uninstall a mod, it doesn't remove scripts that are baked in your save file. Here it doesn't matter too much which mod makes the animations possible, but what script "calls" the animation. If you actually removed the sitting animation from your game, it might just crash right there when the script can't find it. So the solution sometimes is either starting a new game or trying some save cleaning. And avoid uninstalling mods in the middle of a playthrough.

 

Meanwhile i feel like talking while there's storm outside.

[DonQuiWho]

3 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

Even when you uninstall a mod, it doesn't remove scripts that are baked in your save file. Here it doesn't matter too much which mod makes the animations possible, but what script "calls" the animation. If you actually removed the sitting animation from your game, it might just crash right there when the script can't find it. So the solution sometimes is either starting a new game or trying some save cleaning. And avoid uninstalling mods in the middle of a playthrough.

 

Meanwhile i feel like talking while there's storm outside.

Thanks, and apols, as I should have been more clear

 

I didn't uninstall DiD.  Just changed the settings to make the different combat defeat mods change from active/non active etc

 

I did uninstall EnemiesPlus, but as 'Defeat' wasn't installed at the time, so that nothing else got moved about in the load order, I placed that in the same Plugin slot - right near the end anyway, loaded up, saved, and cleaned the save.   FWIW, ? Resaver shows the game as now 'clean' ?

 

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to help, though.  VM appreciated

[Sardaukar]

@Kimy, is there a forum or site that tracks the progress on this mod?

[tuxagent7]

Perceptions Perceptions....

 

What you see isnt what i see...

 

i see Kimy trying to build a bridge for Inte to get onboard POP and his other mods...

 

Inte trying to have his way and make changes all around... doesnt take no for an answer

 

Still it's between them, i dont think we should add to the fire but instead let it be... i dont think everyone wants a repeat from the DCL thread.

 

 

[Nimkal]

On 5/2/2019 at 10:48 AM, Grey Cloud said:

There is no hard and fast 'max' number of animations. Different folks get different results but 1500 should not cause problems (15000 would be a prime suspect). It may just be that DD4 is 'straw which broke the camel's back'. I'm new to the DD stuff so I don't know what size difference is between DD3 and DD4.

Thank god 1 person replied to me. Everyone else is arguing and ignoring my issue even though I've tried for weeks.

Let me correct my statement, it's exactly around 11,200 animations when DDi is not installed. I do have DDa installed and many others mods, working no problem.

Now to test your theory that 15,000 could be a prime suspect, I installed additional animations completely separate from DDi, and no crash was caused with around ~14,500 animations.

Then I installed DDi with only around ~12,000 animations, and it crashed after loading screen, again. So yeah, it's definitely mod related, and no one seems to know what the issue might be.

[Whizkid]

5 minutes ago, Nimkal said:

Thank god 1 person replied to me. Everyone else is arguing and ignoring my issue even though I've tried for weeks.

Let me correct my statement, it's exactly around 11,200 animations when DDi is not installed. I do have DDa installed and many others mods, working no problem.

Now to test your theory that 15,000 could be a prime suspect, I installed additional animations completely separate from DDi, and no crash was caused with around ~14,500 animations.

Then I installed DDi with only around ~12,000 animations, and it crashed after loading screen, again. So yeah, it's definitely mod related, and no one seems to know what the issue might be.

reduce the animations to around 11k, let me know the result!!!!

[Inte]

9 hours ago, tuxagent7 said:

Perceptions Perceptions....

 

What you see isnt what i see...

 

i see Kimy trying to build a bridge for Inte to get onboard POP and his other mods...

 

Inte trying to have his way and make changes all around... doesnt take no for an answer

 

Still it's between them, i dont think we should add to the fire but instead let it be... i dont think everyone wants a repeat from the DCL thread.

 

 

Tell me that you are not this naive and gullible. 

Just like I suspected there is NO incompatibility issue between DCL and POP, updated DDe or not. But even if there was, Kimy never wanted a 'bridge' between the two mods.

Kimy wanted POP (and the rest of the prison mods) gone from the players games, in an effort to force players to play DCL in exclusivity. Kimy excused this rude action by saying that DDe was not up to date and hoped that it never will be. However, when to Kimy's chagrin, I did update DDe, it was time to look for yet another excuse as to why POP will 'not work' with DCL and voila! This is where we are now. 

 

Now I've always maintained, that Kimy can and should do whatever, with a personal mod like DCL, including not supporting POP and other prison mods. But, what I do not support or will stand for, is when rude actions like these are unjustifiably blamed on me, when all I do is build bridges. You want to do shitty things like these to this modding comunity? Come out and say it, own it, don't hide your actions behind other modders. 

 

As for me 'trying to have my way and not taking no for an answer'? Excuse me for trying to improve on a flawed system and not revel in mediocrity. 

 

[Inte]

On 5/5/2019 at 3:29 AM, Lupine00 said:

But if you want pleasant civil discourse on this forum, being quite so dismissive and condescending doesn't seem to be setting an ideal example.

Kimy tailored DDi to suit one mod, DCL. That’s it! Anybody suggesting improvements or anything else will be condescendingly dismissed. 

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, Nimkal said:

Thank god 1 person replied to me. Everyone else is arguing and ignoring my issue even though I've tried for weeks.

Let me correct my statement, it's exactly around 11,200 animations when DDi is not installed. I do have DDa installed and many others mods, working no problem.

Now to test your theory that 15,000 could be a prime suspect, I installed additional animations completely separate from DDi, and no crash was caused with around ~14,500 animations.

Then I installed DDi with only around ~12,000 animations, and it crashed after loading screen, again. So yeah, it's definitely mod related, and no one seems to know what the issue might be.

Total animations is not the issue for most people. The issue is total overrides, which has a much lower limit. I think that FNIS tells you the count for them now, so you should be able to see that. However, FNIS doesn't seem to know at what point the override animations are too many, so doesn't throw an error. 

 

Try removing mods that have a lot of overrides, like Zaz 8+, or Sexy Move.

[Grey Cloud]

4 hours ago, Nimkal said:

So yeah, it's definitely mod related, and no one seems to know what the issue might be.

It is not down to something as simple as this mod or that mod. There are pages and pages on this subject in the tech support section.

My personal experience:

Using FNIS XXL my animation max is c. 13.5K and I was running that number.

A month or two ago I installed the 3 DD mods which took my total way beyond 13.5K and my game would not load.

I kept the 3 DD mods and removed some of my other SLAL packs until the game would load. And lo, the number of animations is at 13.5K.

Other people can run more and others less. So, as has already been suggested, reduce the animations until the game loads. Or, alternately, make a decision as to whether you want the DD stuff and less animations or want to keep your current aniamtions and lose the DD mods.

[Kimy]

On 5/6/2019 at 8:56 AM, Inte said:

Tell me that you are not this naive and gullible. 

Just like I suspected there is NO incompatibility issue between DCL and POP, updated DDe or not. But even if there was, Kimy never wanted a 'bridge' between the two mods.

Kimy wanted POP (and the rest of the prison mods) gone from the players games, in an effort to force players to play DCL in exclusivity. Kimy excused this rude action by saying that DDe was not up to date and hoped that it never will be. However, when to Kimy's chagrin, I did update DDe, it was time to look for yet another excuse as to why POP will 'not work' with DCL and voila! This is where we are now. 

 

Now I've always maintained, that Kimy can and should do whatever, with a personal mod like DCL, including not supporting POP and other prison mods. But, what I do not support or will stand for, is when rude actions like these are unjustifiably blamed on me, when all I do is build bridges. You want to do shitty things like these to this modding comunity? Come out and say it, own it, don't hide your actions behind other modders. 

 

As for me 'trying to have my way and not taking no for an answer'? Excuse me for trying to improve on a flawed system and not revel in mediocrity. 

 

I saw -yesterday- that you updated DD Equip and there has been no DCL update since...well...yesterday. It's typical you that you would attack me for breaking my promise, when I promised to restore the POP integration with the NEXT DCL patch after your mods are officially DD4 compatible. I will absolutely stand by my promise I made to your users. After have I audited your code and confirmed that it's indeed DD4 compatible, that is. This will include having a look at your function that removes devices to see if it's still able to remove other people's quest devices. As you know, I don't consider mods DD4 compatible if they do that.

 

I just wanted to let your users know that I am going to restore POP integration as promised.

[Kimy]

I have REALLY no idea why you think I am out to get you. Just go back a few pages and again read the first 1-2 posts I made in response after your initial long one and look for any signs of aggression or malice on my side there. I also offered to implement a bridge to your mod, when I am under no obligation to. Does this look like I am out to get you?

 

Anyway, I like the suggestion. As you know, I wanted us to stop interacting anyway, as I sort of lost hope that we could ever have a civil discussion that doesn't end like this. A cooldown will work, too. Whatever gets the fighting to stop. I am honestly not fond of fighting. I rather write code.

 

PS: I had a look at your code. Looks good to me! Just please do both of us a favor and make sure that your code doesn't make use of that currently unused alternative device removal function in the future, either. In the interest of peace!

 

Expect the DCL/POP bridge to be released in the next 1-2 days, possibly as soon as today. I already implemented it and it survived preliminary testing!

[Guest]

To all.

Be aware I am cleaning this thread from all the strong words.

Removed tons of posts also.

 

No warnings were given. It was not necessary.

 

Please do not use bad words. And try to collaborate with each other.

[Darkpig]

@CPU

That would explain a few things. I'm kinda glad you did. I didn't want to ruin things with my BFF Kimy. Oh who am I kidding? They probably hate me now. Keep up the good work.