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Lovers Animations Numbering


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UPDATE:  The final tally of the polls are in and the overwhelming majority (72% are in favor of keeping the new animations format.  The newly issued LAPF keeps the new numbering format.

 

However, so this sort of thing doesn't happen again, all animations have been issued a new UMID number that modders can use to call that particular animation for their plugin, regardless of what actual number it has in the 1 to 200 range.

 

The UMID number can be found in the ini file of each animation of the LAPF.  Shortly I will be posting a subgroup breakdown of animations to further assist both modders and end users to sort through their favorites.  Erc1971 will also be issuing a brand new Daedra Sutra version that will only feature animations that use the Animated Penis.  This will also help both modders and end users in picking and choosing animations.

 

 

 

 

For those that are curious here are the final tallies of the voting:

Keep numbering per 11-200 bbb animations pack (and AP packs) (42 votes [72.41%] 
Go back to using the old numbering system (like the DS) (5 votes [8.62%]
Form a new hybrid of the two numbering systems (5 votes [8.62%]
Form a completely new numbering system - "YOU" need to provide details (6 votes [10.34%]
 

 

 

 

 

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Way back in November of 2012 I began to both learn how to use blender and learn how to animate.  I also laid down plans to overhaul the 1 thru 200 animations that LPK currently uses for PC and NPC's with each other.  

 

As part of this overhaul I proposed a new numbering system so that I could better eliminate duplicates and broken animations, as well as put animations into groups to make them easier for both modders and individual gamers to use\find.

 

This renumbering has met with some approval, some disapproval and some who just didn't give a crap.  

 

My reasons for renumbering are now pretty much known and my I think all now know that any collateral damage to their plugins was completely unintentional on my part.  I had the best of intentions (remove duplicates, remove broken animations, clean up existing animations, add new animations) in mind and that was all.  That I have offended some modders or broken plugins was never my intention or goal.  It was both equal parts ignorance and desperation that made me do what I did.

 

Now that the overhaul is almost complete, the time to address this renumbering is upon us.  I have ZERO stake or personal opinion on what form or format the animations stay in or change to.  This I feel is a community decision as it will effect pretty much everyone and so I think folks should be given a chance to speak their minds regarding it.

 

Please be courteous and clearly state what you would change, if change is what you would like to see.

 

NOTE:  This is NOT a requests thread for features or animations for LPK.  This is ONLY to discuss and decide what to do about the 1 to 200 animations numbering.  NOTHING ELSE!

 

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do as you think is better     and anyway if you change it or not   people will find a way to complain   therefor you need to follow your thinking and we users need to adapt.

 

 

While true in part, I am not arrogant enough to insist on folks doing things "my" way.  I did do the work, but I did it for the community and not for my personal fame or glory.  Anything that greatly effects the community should at least be open to discussion or you risk alienating folks.  This is as much for modders as it is for users.  Users probably don't really care much, as they are the least effected.  Modders however, could be greatly impacted and it isn't fair to them to make core changes without them having a say.

 

What is decided at the end of the day, should be about what is best for the community at large and not be based on my thoughts or opinions.  Especially since I really don't care which way folks decide is best.

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i am a user but some times i tweak some esm some esp for my own tast    and i find myself in difficulties with some mods for me it is a fun part.    I have never thaught about any arrogants  when i have suggested to do it in your own way    it is just to say that you are the only judge  of what is easyer for you      and if i may say any changement is good it is an update that can make other mods to update and reconcidered for the better   (but this is just my opinion).

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I'm totally ok with just about any numbering convention, as long as it will take the dominant standard position. Voted on the first, though. I'm sick of numbering and sorting, maintaining my own convention.. so I hope someone would do that for me... :P

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I'll vote for completely new numbering system, in hope what it will help keep animation's assortment structured (some "classic" types plus some "other"/"prelude"/"weird"/"reserved") and accessible for future adding/improvement.
By the way, i'm concerned about future place for "struggle" (73-75) animations - will they go to "prelude" or such?
 

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Guest ThatOne

I honestly don't care either way; animations in my installation have been renumbered more times than I can count, and just about every single mod I have has been changed.

 

I'm voting for the first option, because it's probably the fastest for you.

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I'll vote for completely new numbering system, in hope what it will help keep animation's assortment structured (some "classic" types plus some "other"/"prelude"/"weird"/"reserved") and accessible for future adding/improvement.

By the way, i'm concerned about future place for "struggle" (73-75) animations - will they go to "prelude" or such?

 

 

I don't think you understand what we are talking about.

 

The 11-200 bbb animations pack follows this format:

 

 

 

Proposed renumbering scheme:

1-10.......Core animations - no change

11-19......Chair\Table sex animations (what group should we have these in? Group 3?) - currently 4 of these

20-25......PK extended dedicated animations (this leave a few extra slots if Donkey adds additional animations) - currently 3 existing.

26-53......Group 0 (Cowgirl) - currently 23 minus core and duplicates

54-72......Group 1 (From Back) - currently 39 minus core and duplicates

73-74......Rape Struggle dedicated animations - currently just 2 animations

75-104.....Group 1 (From Back) - currently 39 minus core and duplicates

105-142.....Group 2 (Missionary) - currently 31 minus core and duplicates

143-152....Group 3 (Standing) - currently 7 minus core and duplicates

153-189....Group 4 (Oral) - currently 32 minus core and duplicates

190-200....Odd ball animations - includes up against wall animations and other weird ones like 49, 80, 82, 90.

 

Thus the grand total of existing animations minus the duplicates, now stands at (under revision), which is well under the 200 animation limit.

 

 

 

The original numbering system followed a system of reserving spots for particular plugins: http://wiki.livedoor.jp/oblivion_jp/d/Lovers%a4%ce%a5%e2%a1%bc%a5%b7%a5%e7%a5%f3%c8%d6%b9%e6%a4%c8umid%a4%ce%bb%c8%cd%d1%be%f5%b6%b7

Unfortunately no one ever kept on top of it as lovers progressed and what happened is tons of duplicates crept in along with stuff getting all jumbled up.

 

Not mention animation spots for plugins that no longer work or even exist with the current version of lovers, like:

Lovers Night Arena

Lovers Doctor

Motion & Sound Pack????  Don't even know what the heck that is.

LoversCreatureExtender  - all creature animations were bumped up to 201 and up.

 

 

 

 

If you want a new system then you need to provide details on what you are looking for as I have no intention of "inventing" something.

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It seems i had wrong picture of current animation structure - it appeared very fragmented for me (both by in-game experience and after viewing of DS-album). But my methods of learning are more emotional than rational.. :(

>> "190-200....Odd ball animations - includes up against wall animations and other weird ones like 49, 80, 82, 90."

May be, those "49, 80, 82, 90." (and it seems i can recall others - 91,155) oddballs additionaly impressed me to think "there's no order"?
Now i'm sorry about my ignorant intrusion, i have to learn subject more.

 

UPD: @post#10 Thanks, i'll try2improve my knowledge :dodgy:

 

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It seems i had wrong picture of current animation structure - it appeared very fragmented for me (both by in-game experience and after viewing of DS-album). But my methods of learning are more emotional than rational.. :(

>> "190-200....Odd ball animations - includes up against wall animations and other weird ones like 49, 80, 82, 90."

 

May be, those "49, 80, 82, 90." (and it seems i can recall others - 91,155) oddballs additionaly impressed me to think "there's no order"?

Now i'm sorry about my ignorant intrusion, i have to learn subject more.

 

 

See the spoilers in post 2 for listings of duplicates and animation numbers by group: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/11501-lovers-animations-workshop-old-one/?p=255682

 

NOTE:  The numbering that is in the spoilers is mostly the old system that the Daedra Sutra (DS) uses right now.  As you can see the numbers are very randomly spread out all over the place.

 

Inside the 11-200 bbb animations pack you can find a chart that cross references the Daedra Sutra animations numbers with the revised numbering scheme I came up with and implemented.

 

------------------------------------

 

 

 

To all those proposing a new (or a hybrid) numbering system, you need to provide details on how you see things being done.  I am not going to come up with something new.  I already did that once.   No details\plan, no change.

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While the old numbering system might maintain compatability with specific plugins, it also had a lot of not-so-good animations and - as you said - many duplicates. I ended up replacing a lot of the old animations myself until you graciously took on the task of fixing the whole damned thing yourself.

 

ANY system that allows you to work efficiently and with as little stress as possible is fine by me. I have a few cents to add:

 

1) Maybe a thread that lists mods that are not compatble with the new numbering system, if there already isn't one. The only LPK mods I have that don't work correctly are Galgat's. I could probably fix them myself, but I'm lazy :(

 

2) Strongly suggest that future mods do not call specific animations outside of the base 1 - 10 pack. Animations change and - even before - got overwritten by othe ones. Even making a wrong choice using the Daedra Sutra could mess things up.

 

3) A slot for all of the lesbian animations I've collected (not that many to be honest). I kind of have them scattered all over the place, adding them to any available opening. Open slots are becoming rare, though. "From Behind" and "Its Going To Get Rough" seem pretty much them same. Maybe merge "Rough" with the "From Behind" slot. EDIT: It seems that they are already one and the same. Oops...

 

Lover's with PK needed to be updated, and what you are doing is fine by me. As it was, Lover's with PK was a haphazard collection of animations and plugins that may - or may not - work together. Anyone who prefers the "old" system can download it from HongFire. The new animation packs and the animated penis are such a massive improvement that there is no reason to go back now.

 

P.S. I just woke up and didn't finish my coffee yet. That might not be the most coherent thing I have ever written...

 

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Guest Robo00

I know that this would be a lot of work but I believe it would be very good way of handling animations if a tagging system could be developed. Animators could add various tags in the ini files of each animation that would describe that animation. Then modders could ask the LPK framework to randomly choose an animation which have the specified tags. That way it would be irrevelant in the future from a mod's perspective how the animations are numbered. I think the current 5 default groups are not good enough. Group 4 is cluttered with a lot of stuff many that should be in LPK Extender.

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I might be missing your meaning, Robo00, but tagging already exists, sort of:

 

 

=
;By Donkey:
;
;sposgroup ... Group Number Positions
; 0 = (Women) cowgirl position
; 1 = Back Fuck and standing back fuck
; 2 = Face (lying down) position also known as (Missionary possition)
; 3 = facing each other (standing) and Standing on one foot
; 4 = Blow job position plus anything else that don't fall under category 1 to 3
; 100 = Position for different creature types
;============================================================================================
set xLoversPkrQuest.sposgroup to 1

 

 

"Tag" an SPOS group with a number from 0 to 4 and lovers will randomy choose an animation from that group. Having more than five numbers would be a definite bonus, but I can't even begin to imagine how much work it would entail to impliment that.

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Guest ThatOne

There already are more tags, actually; one per creature type. That's what allows you to swap animations.

You should remember that, while having more tags will allow modders to choose a more specific animation group, it will also decrease the amount of swappable animations per tag - which is something I personally wouldn't want to happen.

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Could it possible these tags will be composite, fex:
thousands segment define consensual\rape\prelude\other,
hundreds define orientation such as from_back\oral\missionery\etc,
and lower (0..99) is human\creature type.

Of course, there should be reserved "undefined" variant (=0?) in each segment.

 

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Guest ThatOne

Making animation tags based on single digits (third, fourth, could even be fifth) is a good idea, but it'll be a pain to code and renumber.

It should, however, allow modders to call specific animations regardless of what they've had their files renumbered to while also allowing players to swap animations, making it more flexible.

 

It's up to Gregathit to decide whether or not he wants to implement it - as I said in the beginning of this post, it'll be a pain - I honestly don't care much either way, as I barely play quest-based mods.

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There is already a system of "taging" a specific animation via the UMID as listed here: http://wiki.livedoor.jp/oblivion_jp/d/Lovers%A4%CE%A5%E2%A1%BC%A5%B7%A5%E7%A5%F3%C8%D6%B9%E6%A4%C8umid%A4%CE%BB%C8%CD%D1%BE%F5%B6%B7

 

This number inside the ini file would allow the modder to select a specific animation, regardless of what number it was to play.  The biggest issue is someone would need to sit down and "create" a UMID chart as many animations were never assigned numbers.  

 

Under the current lovers system modders can select animations in five ways for NPC\PC sex:

1.  Group calls - this selects one of the 5 groups (0 to 4)

- benefits - allows end user to switch animations to one they may like better via the grab key.

- negatives - can end up being semi-ridiculous if the mod is designed to use a particular animation as part of its ambiance.

2.  Specific number calls - this selects an animation based on its number.

- benefits - you get exactly what you want or need.

- negatives - the end user is stuck with that animation whether they like it or not, additionally if the end user doesn't have their animation numbers set up the way the modder does then things don't look right.  There is no switching via the grab key.

3.  UMID calls - this selects a specific animation based on a number that is assigned inside the ini file.

- benefits - the modder can call for a specific animation, while the end user doesn't have to worry about having his animation numbers set up the way the modder has them.

- negatives - again, the end user is locked to that animation, whether they like it or not.  There is no switching via the grab key.

4.  Ini file calls - this is done by the modder setting up a specific number of animations into a group that the mod selects from at random.  A good example of this is WappyOne's RaperS ini setup.  

- benefits - the end user can remove or replace animation numbers at will via editing the ini file to avoid animations they don't like.  They also can switch via the grab key if they are sick of a particular animation.

- negatives - involves a bit more work on the modders part to go through and select animations that fit together, also they have to write the script and make the ini file.  It also requires both modders and end user to have the same animation numbering setup.

5.  Ini file calls via UMID - this would be the ultimate in both flexability and reliability.

- benefits - modders and end users can have animations number setups that don't match, they can also switch via the grab key and end users can change animations out via the ini file.

- negatives - bit of work on the modders part to create the scripts and write the ini file.

 

The ini calls via UMID would be a superior system IMHO.  It would allow modders to keep a particular ambiance while giving the end user flexibility to customize their game.  The only downside is someone having to sit down and create a UMID chart and then go through and redo all the ini files.

 

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Never going to have a better chance to ensure all animations have an assigned UMID.

 

Would both help prevent future breaks and make it fairly trivial to fix any remaining plugins that were broken by the v3 renumbering.

 

This approach has my vote. Also seems ot be the most logical and log-term beneficial as a whole.

 

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I am "considering" adding UMID numbers to the ini files for the upcoming Animated Penis Framework plugin.  In taking a cursory glance at it, I did not find anything in the LPK esm or esp files that I would need to mess with.  It is just a matter of adding a tag in the ini file.  If anyone has seen something different please holler.  If I am going to do this I need to hustle as it is my goal to push out the plugin for beta testing sometime this weekend.

 

 

Edit:  With helpful advice from WappyOne I am going to be adding UMID numbers to all AP animations (1-200). The UMID numbers will be simple right now with animation 1 having a UMID number of 100001.  Animation 200 will be 100200.  

 

Based on the fact that I have messed with all the animations and a fairly familiar with them (LOL) I will make a subgroupings chart for breakdowns within each group to help both modders and end users track down animations they prefer.

 

Here are the subgroups I am looking at currently.  Feel free to make suggestions:

 

Group 0 (cowgirl group):

cowgirl normal

cowgirl reverse

cowgirl furniture (has furniture involved)

 

Group 1 (from behind)

FB standing normal

FB standing forced (rape type)

FB laying down normal

FB laying down forced (rape type)

FB doggie normal

FB doggie forced (rape type)

FB furniture

 

Group 2 (missionary\laying down)

Missionary normal

Missionary forced (rape type)

Non-missionary but laying down normal

Non-missionary but laying down forced

furniture

 

Group 3 (standing and facing)

Facing normal

Facing forced (rape type)

furniture

 

Group 4 (oral)

BJ normal

BJ forced

Rug munching (lesbian)

Rug munching (hetero)

Fingering

Footsie

Hand jobs

Tit fucking

Breast Play

Masturbation

 

I will make a chart of both animation numbers as well as UMID numbers for all above subcatagories so modders and end users can quickly find desired animations.  Erc1971 will also make a Daedra Sutra dedicated solely to AP animations which will provide further aid to both modders and end users to identify animations (the DS contains pictures of each stage of an animation).

 

Hopefully this will greatly simplify things for all parties and help ease folks who may not yet have taken the plugin into the new system of numbering yet.  

 

I am open to suggestions so feel free to post them here if you see any issues with things.  I am running slightly behind in finishing up a few animations both for Lovers Masturbation and the latest AP Pack so I am not sure I will get the new framework out this weekend.  I "am" trying, but can only get so much done at the moment.  

 

Cheers,

Greg

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