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Is SexLab Relationships mod possible to be made?


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Since this is my first post in these forums it's time to say hello at last, so well ummm... hello.

 

I've been browsing LL for quite a bit of time already and I used SexLab based mods a lot, so yesterday an idea came up to my mind "Why wouldn't I make something instead of just expecting the others to do what I'd like to have in game?".

I never really tried modding before, but I believe it shouldn't be really hard to understand scripting in Papyrus as I already have few years of experience with programming.

My only worry is that I have no idea what limitations to expect, but that's why I'd like to ask more experienced modders here about my idea. I'd also like to hear if users of SexLab would be interested in playing with such mod in their game. So, if you are not a modder I'd still like to know what you think about my little idea.

 

I know there already is a thread for ideas for mods, but well, it isn't really that much of idea, but rather an question if such thing could even be done.

 

Well, let's get it started. My mod wouldn't strictly be about sex as there would be few stadiums of relationship between PC and NPC that would base on Relationship Points (RP), which would depend on how much you care about your NPC. I imagine it could go like that:

  • Stranger
  • Friend
  • Close Friend
  • Lover
  • Bride/Husband

At first I thought I could store default RP value ( which would be 0 ), along all the NPCs in some array or edit all NPCs in CK to give them all an attribute of RP, but that would cost a lot of time and I also think that wouldn't really be optimized. Now I think about having an array that would be empty at the beginning, but as soon as you begin your relationship with some NPC it would add his name and RP value to that array. If you know a better way I'm more then interested in getting myself familiar with it.

 

I'd also like to make it a bit random. I mean some NPCs might have sex with PC at friendship level and some NPCs might not let you do it with them until you marry them, though I have no idea at all how would I make it happen without writing really heavy scripts (tell me there is some attribute for NPCs like easy-sex-probability :C ). Well, if anybody has an idea how that could be done and if that could be done without lagging Skyrim like crazy then I'm all ears.

 

How would you advance in your relationship? Well, at first I thought about some random quests like "Go there, kill that and I'll let you fuck my butt" (jk obviously), but in my opinion it's not really a thing that would be very immersive and well, it would be just boring after a while. At the moment one of my ideas are gifts. Depending on value of a gift your RP would progress appropriately. I think that I'd make one list of things that would be accepted by male NPCs and one list that would be accepted by female NPCs. Obviously it wouldn't be just jewelery (in case of women), but maybe some weapons too or some "neutral" food like apples and stuff. I also would like to make NPCs feel annoyed if you'll just keep giving them the same things all the time. That would mean just that your RP would down a little bit after for example 3rd time you gift the same thing (First time it's like "Really?! Wow, thank you so much!" then it's like "Yeah.. Thanks, I like it" and then "Come on! Not again!" -- feels like reality, lol).

 

I'd also like to make something in here like Trust Points (TP). What does it mean? It would be a secret integer that's not known to player. It wouldn't really be important in early stages of Relationship, but only as you'd become Lovers with the NPC then you'd have to be really careful about it. Why? Well, simply if your love won't trust you then it means no candy. None. At all. The lower the TP the harder it is to get them. How would you lose them? One of my first ideas is to romance or have sex with other NPC when your love is at the same grid for example. One way of gaining trust would be to simply have an consensual sex (I consider having a possibility to rape the NPC if he/she denies to you, but that would greatly decrease your TP and also you'd lose a bit of RP).

 

That's about it for now, if anybody has any questions I'm more then willing to answer them, but I'd rather like to hear your opinions about it. So, yeah, thank you a lot in advance for any feedback and thanks for making it through my scribble.

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I think it's an amazing idea and I would love it especially if you could start it not as a sex related thingy but as a framework that other mods (sex related and not) could later be pinned to. If there was a universal relationships manager for multiple mods I'd love to make Vampiric Thirst compatible with it n_n

 

It would solve lots of wierdness with many mods that add seduction dialogues, like you can seduce someone to have sex with you in one mod but the same person will refuse to even have a kiss in another. A universal framework could help compatibility lots.

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Use "faction" for those Relationship Points. Faction like CurrentFollower, RiftenFaction, etc. Faction is an integer. You can add it to any actor, remove it, change it.

 

Array has max size of 128.

 

If you want to track NPCs with a script, then do not use spell/magic effect to track NPCs. Skyrim removes, dispells NPC when Player goes to far away. You'll have to use quest alias.

 

 

"tell me there is some attribute for NPCs like easy-sex-probability". As far as I know, it does not exists. You could emulate it by checking if you both are member of the same faction, use actor values Aggression, Confidence, Morality, Assistance.

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@Ms Leeches

Relationships framework sounds like an excellent idea.

To be honest I wanted to have immersive relationships in Skyrim ever since it came out. I'm not the greatest fan of Bethesda's solution, which is:

  1. Wear Amulet of Mara.
  2. Have a bit of luck.
  3. Get married.
  4. Live happily forever after.

I want players (including me obviously) to somehow get a little bit emotionally involved into that relationship, so if your spouse dies for example in combat you ain't like "Damn, I need to find somebody else", but to let some feelings go out, so then you'd for example maniacally kill and burn your enemies and if that wouldn't be enough you could still throw them from Throat Of The World.

 

SexLab partially achieves what I want, because it brings into relationships in Skyrim essential concept of sexuality, but that's still not how I want the things to look like.

 

Before your post I thought I'd rather have this mod as SexLab's child, but now I need to consider another possibility, where I'd make it as independent framework (as you suggested) and just make it compatible with SexLab and its plugins (just like Wet and Cold detects if Frostfall or Get Snowy are installed). In that way I imagine that it wouldn't require SexLab, but without it you'd cut yourself from a lot of relationship possibilities (let's consider it as mild version for under-ages).

 

@Fotogen

Thanks a lot for these tips. As I said I'm fairly new to modding Skyrim and everything is deeply appreciated, because it saves me from doing that research on my own.

 

About that "easy-sex-probability" property it was more like a joke :P Using those properties, which you mentioned + a bit of good ol' randomness should be more then enough for sake of first steps of this mod.

 

I'm more then grateful for feedback I received, it's really helpful and makes me believe that I might be able to make this thing actually happen (lol).

I'd love to hear from more people, if there is something on their mind about it.

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There was a wip thread about this very thing.

 

It seems to have been put on Hiatus though.

 

 

@Ms Leeches

Relationships framework sounds like an excellent idea.

To be honest I wanted to have immersive relationships in Skyrim ever since it came out. I'm not the greatest fan of Bethesda's solution, which is:

  1. Wear Amulet of Mara.
  2. Have a bit of luck.
  3. Get married.
  4. Live happily forever after.

Actually, #2 isn't even "have a bit of luck" it's just "say a bunch of things to person x"

 

I call it "Supermarket Marriage".

1. Go to the store temple of mara,

2. get a cart amulet of mara,

3. find a product person,

4. pick it off the shelf go through a bunch of dialogues,

5. Go to the checkout counter temple of mara,

6. check out your items get married.

7. go home. 

 

It's one of the most cheap, most forced, most artificial attempts at "romance" that I have ever seen.

 

what would be awesome is a port/remake of the Romance Mod for Morrowind.

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@rylasasin

I plan to take much different approach then it was planned in "Marriage\Courtship Project" mod.

Well, firstly I will not replace anything that is in Skyrim, so if Player will still want to use Amulet of Mara then it's totally fine ( I have an opinion that trying to replace scripted things in such complicated game can be very destructive thing if you don't know very well what you are doing ). Next thing is that my mod would not be just about romancing stage, but would touch relationships in general.

 

Obviously if MisterH is still working on his mod then I'll honor his hard work and will have to take different approach or even forget about this idea, but so far it seems like dead, but obviously I may be wrong.

 

I'll also take a deeper look at the "Romance Mod for Morrowind", as it looks like a great mod to get inspiration from.

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@Ms Leeches

Relationships framework sounds like an excellent idea.

To be honest I wanted to have immersive relationships in Skyrim ever since it came out. I'm not the greatest fan of Bethesda's solution, which is:

  • Wear Amulet of Mara.
  • Have a bit of luck.
  • Get married.
  • Live happily forever after.
I want players (including me obviously) to somehow get a little bit emotionally involved into that relationship, so if your spouse dies for example in combat you ain't like "Damn, I need to find somebody else", but to let some feelings go out, so then you'd for example maniacally kill and burn your enemies and if that wouldn't be enough you could still throw them from Throat Of The World.

 

SexLab partially achieves what I want, because it brings into relationships in Skyrim essential concept of sexuality, but that's still not how I want the things to look like.

 

Before your post I thought I'd rather have this mod as SexLab's child, but now I need to consider another possibility, where I'd make it as independent framework (as you suggested) and just make it compatible with SexLab and its plugins (just like Wet and Cold detects if Frostfall or Get Snowy are installed). In that way I imagine that it wouldn't require SexLab, but without it you'd cut yourself from a lot of relationship possibilities (let's consider it as mild version for under-ages).

 

Oh yah I so haaaaaaate amulet of mara it's like "hi Ysolda!" "Hi playername! ooooh I see you're wearing an amulet of mara, wow you must be totally desperate!" "ummmm..." "but that's okay I'm too! you know I've been thinking about you ever since you brought me this strong... thick... mammoth tusk, rawr! So wanna get hitched? I could show you later how it's..." *player sets herself on fire*

 

Buuuuut I'm rambling about totally wrong thing! I thought it would be better as a framework because it would expand your playerbase lots. You could put it on nexus and I could release a compatibility patch with my mod for it that lots of people could use, I would be able to officially market and advertise and recommend your mod everywhere without mentioning loverslab (I was told it's blacklisted on nexus so I can't mention it there) and lots of other modders with ideas that could use it would be exposed to the framework too which would expand it even more.

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If this gets developed i will test it as all stuff i like to be worked, this will be gold, pretty interested and In my opinion, i just have experience in dismembering the mod to understand their funcionality, i guess this can be achieved, storing the relationship in factions or somthing like that, would be great to see ir rolling, good luck!

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@Ms Leeches

As MUCH as I really do appreciate a trust and willingness to help I'm not sure if I'll upload my creation to nexus when (if) it gets done. Why? There are few reasons:

  1. I'd like to put a lot of focus into integrating my mod/framework with SexLab (won't be needed if it will be a mod basing on SexLab) and I'd like to clearly state in mod's description that without SexLab this mod/framework is missing features.
  2. There are some wrong things happening on nexus sites and I'm not sure if I'd like my creation to be associated in any way with it.

I'm not saying I'll never upload my mod in there, but at the moment I'm just not sure.

But I really am grateful for help offer, it's very nice of you.

 

@xornfl

I'm much grateful for offer to help to test. Testers are guys that are always needed and their job is so important, but yet, in these days these guys are so underestimated.

I'll keep you in my mind and if I'll make something that could be called interesting/useful I'll certainly pm you.

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...

 

Well, let's get it started. My mod wouldn't strictly be about sex as there would be few stadiums of relationship between PC and NPC that would base on Relationship Points (RP), which would depend on how much you care about your NPC. I imagine it could go like that:

  • Stranger
  • Friend
  • Close Friend
  • Lover
  • Bride/Husband
At first I thought I could store default RP value ( which would be 0 ), along all the NPCs in some array or edit all NPCs in CK to give them all an attribute of RP, but that would cost a lot of time and I also think that wouldn't really be optimized. Now I think about having an array that would be empty at the beginning, but as soon as you begin your relationship with some NPC it would add his name and RP value to that array. If you know a better way I'm more then interested in getting myself familiar with it.

 

...

 

This bit sounds a lot like the RelationshipRank field already in the game (from the Actor.PSC file):

 

; Relationship functions use the following values:

; 4 - Lover

; 3 - Ally

; 2 - Confidant

; 1 - Friend

; 0 - Acquaintance

; -1 - Rival

; -2 - Foe

; -3 - Enemy

; -4 - Archnemesis

 

You can take advantage of the existing game fields and mechanisms to accomplish what you are planning. There is a Faction for being married to the player so you don't need a different value for lover vs spouse.

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I cant believe I'm saying this xD but I kinda miss the universal persuasion system and disposition value from morrowind and oblivion. It was sooooo shallow and generic but at least it let modders easily figure out how much an npc likes player and manipulate the value without being afraid of leaving any potentially bad permanent changes. And in skyrim relationships are improved by doing quests for the npc which i think is amazing and way more creative buuuuut the quests are only given by a few special named npcs so it's not possible to like become best friends with a random guard so he could take care of your fines if you get in trouble (i loved it in oblivion) I don't know which systaem i like more now but i kinda feel they could have left both in instead of throwing away the old one like that. It would have helped mod compatibility lots.

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Thank you for all your posts guys and gals.

Your feedback is essential for me as now i have some idea what you'd expect.

 

I decided I'll try ( and will do my best ) to make that Relationships mod/framework happen, but I'll wait until 1st September with starting the works and making WIP thread, because I'd like to analyse information I have, make some generic decisions about form and tasks of this mod/framework.

 

Of course I'd still like to hear more if somebody would like to say anything that wasn't said yet and I obviously still will consider new ideas/doubts/hopes etc.

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I don't know how feasible any of these ideas are to implement, but I actually brainstormed a bit over something like this a few days before you posted (was jaded by what is currently available in vanilla and with current mods)

 

Bathing

-Wash up to increase speech.

-Lose speech points if it's been a while since you've last bathed.

-Use perfumes/cologne to increase speech or mask that you haven't taken a bath.

 

Gifting

-Earn points by giving gifts to your significant other like rings and amulets.

-Earn points by sharing a bottle of wine or food.

 

Dates

-Earn points by taking your significant other adventuring.

-Earn points by taking your signifcant other to various towns and cities.

-Earn points by taking your signifcant other to spots around Skyrim, such as The Throat of the World or the Hot Springs.

 

Marraige

-You have to have a certain amount of points with an NPC before being able to marry them.  No longer will having an Amulet of Mara do the trick.

-If you neglect your spouse, they'll cheat on you or break up with you.

 

Affairs

-You can have multiple relationships at once but be careful, your spouses may find out.

-If your significant others are in different cities, the likelyhood of them finding out is small.

-If your significant others are in the same city, the likelyhood of them finding out is higher.

-If you take one of your significant other to a city that has an NPC that you also have a relationship with and you go up to talk to them, you better have a high ass speech skill.

 

Decreasing Relationship Points

-Your relationship points with a NPC will decrease to a certain point if you neglect them.

-Your relationship points with a NPC will take a nosedive if they find out you're cheating on them or if you break up with them after marriage or if they were head over heels for you.  They'll not speak with you until a certain amount of time has passed.

 

Buffs/Debuffs

-You'll have a buff if you're in a relationship.

-You'll have a debuff if a NPC breaks up with you.

-You'll have a major debuff if your spouse or someone you where head over heels with dies.

 

Funerals

-Attend the funeral of your spouse or someone you were in a relationship with to reduce debuff time?

-Funerals are held in Falkreath.

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Dates

-Earn points by taking your significant other adventuring.

-Earn points by taking your signifcant other to various towns and cities.

-Earn points by taking your signifcant other to spots around Skyrim, such as The Throat of the World or the Hot Springs.

I think it could also be a good way to lose points if something bad happens during those dates like youe date getting hurt or knocked unconscious (tracking things like that is possible if you attach a script to a reference alias and put the npc into that alias) or the weather being awful and so on. I have been on 4382372390326 wonderful dates totally ruined by circumstances so I think I'm an expert n_n

 

I think it would be easy to make those dates as radiant quests that give player a pool of spots to visit (like random 10 limited by stage of the relationship: for low relationships it could be only nearby spots inside the current hold and high relationship dates would be like touring entire skyrim) to choose from and objective would be to visit at least like 3 of them. The date quest could have a time limit like 24 hours (or 48 for skyrum wide tours) and it would fail if you can't reach the objective in time. The limit probably shouldn't be too short so player doesnt feel rushed and can take her or his time but it should fail if player doesn't pay attention to it for long enough.

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I don't know how feasible any of these ideas are to implement, but I actually brainstormed a bit over something like this a few days before you posted (was jaded by what is currently available in vanilla and with current mods)

 

Affairs

-You can have multiple relationships at once but be careful, your spouses may find out.

-If your significant others are in different cities, the likelyhood of them finding out is small.

-If your significant others are in the same city, the likelyhood of them finding out is higher.

-If you take one of your significant other to a city that has an NPC that you also have a relationship with and you go up to talk to them, you better have a high ass speech skill.

 

Add to that: certain spouses might like to swing, or might simply be more open to or even suggest Polyamory or Voyerism than others. In that case "cheating" might actually have the opposite effect.

 

However, you should talk to your spouse about it before doing this (or as I mentioned the spouse might be the one to suggest it given certain conditions)

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One very small suggestion is to add a little thing that the Lovely Jessica mod has.  She died, and some time later a messenger handed me a note.  It was a really nice little note from her parents, thanking me for being a guiding light in her life (or somesuch), and bequeathing me her inheritance.

They couldn't have known that I was the instrument of her demise (it was an accident, honest-- take it up with Boethiah), but the idea is nice anyway.

 

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I'm working on something similar to this, it's mostly focused on adding flirt dialogues to npc's though and having a relationship faction take care of your standing with the npc etc. I'm pretty close to finishing the first draft, maybe we could work together 

I have a post about it here with the features I got so far:

 

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/20516-wip-flirting-pick-up-relationship-mod-with-sexlab/

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I don't know how feasible any of these ideas are to implement, but I actually brainstormed a bit over something like this a few days before you posted (was jaded by what is currently available in vanilla and with current mods)

 

Bathing

-Wash up to increase speech.

-Lose speech points if it's been a while since you've last bathed.

-Use perfumes/cologne to increase speech or mask that you haven't taken a bath.

 

Gifting

-Earn points by giving gifts to your significant other like rings and amulets.

-Earn points by sharing a bottle of wine or food.

 

Dates

-Earn points by taking your significant other adventuring.

-Earn points by taking your signifcant other to various towns and cities.

-Earn points by taking your signifcant other to spots around Skyrim, such as The Throat of the World or the Hot Springs.

 

Marraige

-You have to have a certain amount of points with an NPC before being able to marry them.  No longer will having an Amulet of Mara do the trick.

-If you neglect your spouse, they'll cheat on you or break up with you.

 

Affairs

-You can have multiple relationships at once but be careful, your spouses may find out.

-If your significant others are in different cities, the likelyhood of them finding out is small.

-If your significant others are in the same city, the likelyhood of them finding out is higher.

-If you take one of your significant other to a city that has an NPC that you also have a relationship with and you go up to talk to them, you better have a high ass speech skill.

 

Decreasing Relationship Points

-Your relationship points with a NPC will decrease to a certain point if you neglect them.

-Your relationship points with a NPC will take a nosedive if they find out you're cheating on them or if you break up with them after marriage or if they were head over heels for you.  They'll not speak with you until a certain amount of time has passed.

 

Buffs/Debuffs

-You'll have a buff if you're in a relationship.

-You'll have a debuff if a NPC breaks up with you.

-You'll have a major debuff if your spouse or someone you where head over heels with dies.

 

Funerals

-Attend the funeral of your spouse or someone you were in a relationship with to reduce debuff time?

-Funerals are held in Falkreath.

 

Thanks a lot, that's a bunch of ideas that I'd like to see happening in Skyrim. I think that it may be fun to implement a mechanism like when your lover finds out about your other lovers then there would be a chance ( smaller or bigger, probably depending on NPCs factions/other attributes ) on hiring Dark Brotherhood agents to well, make your life a bit shorter then you may like it to be.

 

I think that Speech buff/debuff regarding bathing is something that you'd have to ask author of Private Needs mod about.

 

Gifting is something that I already have in my mind and in my imagination it looks exactly the same as you wrote, though at the moment I think it wouldn't be just jewelery and food. For example I'd consider some expensive/unique weapons like swords/axes for male NPCs.

 

Dating sounds cool ( "Yeah baby, let's chop some heads off ^.^" ), but I don't have a full vision of how it would look like yet. Just having a walk from Whiterun to Throat Of the World sounds... boring. It may involve some dialogs, but I'd have to limit myself to vanilla voices what may be painful to make something interesting that would work with all those vanilla ice creams.

 

Having enough RP to marry an NPC is an obvious thing, but as I said earlier I'm not sure if I'd like to mess up with Amulet of Mara. Reason for that is I'm not sure if it wouldn't break game somewhere.

 

I'm also not sure about all funerals being held in Falkreath as considering civil war I'm not sure if Stormcloaks or Imperials would be happy about being buried near their enemies. Not to mention about thoughts of locals. But funerals in overall are a cool idea and I'd like to see it happening.

 

Generally I like your ideas, thanks for taking time to list them in here. It helps a lot to have even more information to shape my vision.

 

@Ms Leeches

If you are so experienced about dates I'd gladly have you as an consultant to discuss how to implement dates in Skyrim, so they wouldn't be boring : P

 

Generally speaking I like generic concept of your idea about how dating would work, but I'm afraid if these quests wouldn't become predictable and boring after dozen of dates. I'm aware of that you could always role-play things, but still on mechanical side I want to bring as much immersion as possible.

 

Well, yet another thing that should be carefully thought out.

 

@rylasasin

As Fotogen mentioned earlier I may use actor attributes like morality, aggression and confidence for your idea to happen. For example if your lover has low morality, high aggression and high confidence then it might be possible that he/she "likes to swing" : P

 

@cretin

I'm not sure about this idea. Well, I'd have to be super-careful about the lore of all NPCs, because it may be very immersion-breaking if for example NPC would be an orphan, who was hated by his/her family or if NPC would be in conflict with his family in Skyrim.

 

I'll think about your idea anyway. Maybe it isn't as hard to be made as I think.

 

@Mouse1

I've sent you a message : )

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Hihihi yah it would be boring after a while ^^ but I just wanted to show you one of the simplest ways it's possible to do it. When I make my mods I always start by planning out all technical thingies and seeing what limitations I have to work within. I think being aware of the limitations of CK is the most important thing if you want to make complex mods because you may have to adjust your vision a lot to make it possible with the tools you have and i think it's better to start with a small vision and build up from there than a big one and have to trim it down. I see lots of people new to modding who start with huuuuge amazing ideas but then open CK and leave disappointed n_n

I think it would be best if you start by limiting your ambitions to basic things at first and after you have the foundations set up you can add more advanced and complicated things on top of it.

 

 

 

And I don't think I'd be a good dating consultant! The only dating advice I could give is how to always end up involved with the worst guys ever and how to pretend you're enjoying a ruined date. I think I'm cursed that way ^^

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