Sexlab Submit 01SEP14 1133

[dkatryl]

Okay, my quick and dirty test running Framework 1.2 with FNIS 3.5 is that the "Debug.SendAnimationEvent(Target, "IdleForceDefaultState")" properly work, but the sex scenes exhibit the same quirks I experienced earlier, meaning when you transition from the foreplay to actual sex, your partner will do this weird "rotate 180 along an invisible arc, then when sex is over, get dressed but keep doing the last thing you were doing if you have rag-doll turned on"

 

So, eh, from everything I've read from both Ashal and Fore, the full FNIS 4 should be released in ~week, which means Ashal will likely update the Framework with the corrected files, and then hopefully we can all look back at this period and laugh.

 

For now, I will be personally running FNIS 3.5 until the finished 4 is released, because I am not about to go plunging into every script and function that uses that particular Idle to work around a bug that should be fixed in ~week.

 

Edit: The reason I made the change to the player submit last night was because there is a big difference between the PLAYER dying with the mod and just some random bandit.  Technically, if you need to use FNIS 4.# before it gets out of Beta, you can use the Shout, disable to auto-disarm, and still make a hostile NPC submit just fine.

[laz0r]

Okay, my quick and dirty test running Framework 1.2 with FNIS 3.5 is that the "Debug.SendAnimationEvent(Target, "IdleForceDefaultState")" properly work, but the sex scenes exhibit the same quirks I experienced earlier, meaning when you transition from the foreplay to actual sex, your partner will do this weird "rotate 180 along an invisible arc, then when sex is over, get dressed but keep doing the last thing you were doing if you have rag-doll turned on"

 

So, eh, from everything I've read from both Ashal and Fore, the full FNIS 4 should be released in ~week, which means Ashal will likely update the Framework with the corrected files, and then hopefully we can all look back at this period and laugh.

 

For now, I will be personally running FNIS 3.5 until the finished 4 is released, because I am not about to go plunging into every script and function that uses that particular Idle to work around a bug that should be fixed in ~week.

So you're just going to run FNIS 3.5 and Sexlab 1.2? Or are you going to revert to Sexlab 1.15b?

[dkatryl]

 

So you're just going to run FNIS 3.5 and Sexlab 1.2? Or are you going to revert to Sexlab 1.15b?

 

I will probably just keep it on SL 1.2, turn off the rag-doll and just deal with the quirks for now.

 

Also keep in mind, there are some newer features in the SL 1.2 that I want to make use of as soon as the documentation on it catches up.

 

In particular, the ability to assign the "Undress" animation at the actor level, vs just a flat on/off toggle from the MCM.  It's fine for consensual, but for nonconsensual, when I've already stripped the victim (player or NPC), it's kind of silly for them to redo the undress animation.

 

So, I might as well just leave it at 1.2.

 

(And I honestly think I was still on 1.14 when I upgraded.  )

 

Edit: I suppose I should put a little message about this on the main page.

[srayesmanll]

You were probably using 1.15b.  The MCM for SexLab 1.15b displayed 1.14 as the version.

[dkatryl]

You were probably using 1.15b.  The MCM for SexLab 1.15b displayed 1.14 as the version.

Possible.  I know I've skipped whole revisions in the past.  I know I went from 1.11 to 1.14 directly.  For some reason, I think I didn't bother updating 1.14.

 

Either way, I added this at the top of the main page:

 

*** ATTENTION ***

Currently, there is an issue with FNIS 4 Beta version that affects the Debug.SendAnimationEvent(Target, "IdleForceDefaultState") that is used all over the mod.  This issue is not present in FNIS 3.5, which most everyone has been using for months.  It is only with the recent release of SL 1.2, that expects you to use FNIS 4.x that this issue is becoming evident.  Fores is aware that the idle was affected, FNIS 4 should be out of Beta in roughly a week, and Ashal will update SL 1.2 with the corrected and final FNIS resource at that time.  Until then, if you use SL 1.2 and use Submit, you have one of two options as I see it:

1. Run SL 1.2 with FNIS 3.5, waiting a week or so until FNIS 4 is completed and SL 1.2 is updated with the corrected files.  This is what I am doing.  Or,
2. Run SL 1.2 with FNIS 4.x, ,also waiting a week or so until FNIS 4 is completed, but you will be unable to use the Ambush or Grapple without killing your target.  You *can* use the Shout with the Disarm turned OFF, as that won't use any KillMove() animations.

Hopefully, this will all be addressed in ~week or so.

[germanicus]

Okay, everyone that has been having issues:

 

Please understand that 1.2 isn't really the direct culprit.  The real issue is that FNIS and the latest version of the developer's utility that the Framework uses has bugs, in particular that Fore fucked up something with regards to:

Debug.SendAnimationEvent(Target, "IdleForceDefaultState")

That line is key, as that is what aborts the killmoves. 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/11811//

"Fixed some Beta 4 bugs : Gender/PCEA, FNISforModders abort with SAs, IdleForceDefaultState not working, bad event for furniture animations"

 

Fore is already aware of that, and will soon have the FNIS 4 out of beta, but for right now, that idle got FUBAR'd.

 

 

well good 4 you its killing npc with 1.2 for me too.

That said, let me jump right on that because you are being inconvenienced.

 

Thank you for this post dkatryl. You're awesome. And for updates too.

[laz0r]

Alright, so I've decided to run FNIS 4.03b and SL 1.2, while just using the shout with disarm turned off. 

 

One thing I noticed is that when an NPC submits, they go non-hostile and then just cower in fear, nothing else happens. I can initiate dialogue with them and say "Submit or die!", but this only works with NPCs that you can regularly speak to. For instance, if you have a bounty, you can make a guard submit, but you can't rob them or rape them afterwards because you can't access the dialogue without them attempting to arrest you.

 

I'm not sure if this is intended or not. 

[MythicMiss]

DK, would changing the animation from the killmove to, say, IdlePrisonerBeat help things at all?

[dkatryl]

Alright, so I've decided to run FNIS 4.03b and SL 1.2, while just using the shout with disarm turned off. 

 

One thing I noticed is that when an NPC submits, they go non-hostile and then just cower in fear, nothing else happens. I can initiate dialogue with them and say "Submit or die!", but this only works with NPCs that you can regularly speak to. For instance, if you have a bounty, you can make a guard submit, but you can't rob them or rape them afterwards because you can't access the dialogue without them attempting to arrest you.

 

I'm not sure if this is intended or not. 

I haven't tried doing the 1.2 + 4.x combination, but guards are a bad example, because their arrest AI overrides pretty much anything else.

 

Are you saying you can't talk to bandits and such?

[dkatryl]

DK, would changing the animation from the killmove to, say, IdlePrisonerBeat help things at all?

I am not familiar with that animation, so I suppose I can take a look and see what it looks like.

[dkatryl]

Okay, potentially good news, I tried the current FNIS 4 beta 4.2, the same one Ashal is telling people to use, and that seemed to have fixed the IdleDefault issue, because I was able to successfully beatdown a couple of test bandits without killing them.

 

So, I would suggest people give that a shot, see if their experience is improved.

[laz0r]

 

Alright, so I've decided to run FNIS 4.03b and SL 1.2, while just using the shout with disarm turned off. 

 

One thing I noticed is that when an NPC submits, they go non-hostile and then just cower in fear, nothing else happens. I can initiate dialogue with them and say "Submit or die!", but this only works with NPCs that you can regularly speak to. For instance, if you have a bounty, you can make a guard submit, but you can't rob them or rape them afterwards because you can't access the dialogue without them attempting to arrest you.

 

I'm not sure if this is intended or not. 

I haven't tried doing the 1.2 + 4.x combination, but guards are a bad example, because their arrest AI overrides pretty much anything else.

 

Are you saying you can't talk to bandits and such?

 

It's only guards and imperial/thalmor patrols.

[Lodakai]

I'm trying this out.  Thank god you put in the comment on your download page about the killmoves.  I was going crazy trying to figure it out.  This mod otherwise works really well surprisingly with all the heavy script using mods I have (frostfall, needs, footsteps, cold and wet, unread books glow, etc)  I have alot and I only really notice a lag after some dialogue when i have the debug on.  And that's pretty much my fault for slamming papyrus with my mods.  Great work!

 

*(wishlist comment) If you ever get around to it.. a toggle to disable same sex conversation options would be nice in the mcm.  Or a dialogue thread to kill that option on a specific gender, if that would be easier.  I can just ignore it.. but..  Well I tend to try to go through ALL the npc dialogues and it makes me feel like my character is conflicted!  

 

I'll try the new FNIS beta.. I'll let you know how it goes.  

[00bc]

So using the speechcraft submit with the 1.2 update and fnis 4.0 beta 4.2 only recently, and i remember some changes with the update. With the talk function of submit, it seems you can keep asking an npc in succession without a time restraint even if you fail. Also, im noticing that speech exp is only gained when you succeed a speech check. The threesome dialogue is available and included along the other initial 1 on 1 dialogue during speech check even if you dont have a tagged partner (although for some reason i didnt check to see what it does). I think these are the only noticeble changes I saw in the 1.2 update (since I didnt try to use grapple, ambush, bounty or surrender) and I might check later also for any issues related to speech submit.

[Lodakai]

Well I got the hotfix for sexlab.. the beta 4_2 manual installs from FNIS and the latest submit.  Still get killmove kills.  Probably something I missed I'm sure.  But theres my update from earlier =p

[dkatryl]

I'm trying this out.  Thank god you put in the comment on your download page about the killmoves.  I was going crazy trying to figure it out.  This mod otherwise works really well surprisingly with all the heavy script using mods I have (frostfall, needs, footsteps, cold and wet, unread books glow, etc)  I have alot and I only really notice a lag after some dialogue when i have the debug on.  And that's pretty much my fault for slamming papyrus with my mods.  Great work!

If you are referring to the slight delay between starting to chat them up and getting to the point where you have the seduce/bribe/coerce options, that's because there are 3 separate functions that have to be run on the step before hand, since each path has its own algorithm with varying success chances, and each function internally calls to another function to gather up a crapload of stats to figure out what the base chance is, etc.

 

So, that is why there is the slight delay.

[dkatryl]

Well I got the hotfix for sexlab.. the beta 4_2 manual installs from FNIS and the latest submit.  Still get killmove kills.  Probably something I missed I'm sure.  But theres my update from earlier =p

I'm going to ask the obvious, after you installed the beta 4.2, did you re-run the tools for users?

 

That is all I did, and it fixed the idledefault issue.  (I still have the weird floating positions and partner stuck in the last position loop if the ragdoll is used in the Framework)  But the beatdown issue was fixed for me.

[dkatryl]

So using the speechcraft submit with the 1.2 update and fnis 4.0 beta 4.2 only recently, and i remember some changes with the update. With the talk function of submit, it seems you can keep asking an npc in succession without a time restraint even if you fail. Also, im noticing that speech exp is only gained when you succeed a speech check. The threesome dialogue is available and included along the other initial 1 on 1 dialogue during speech check even if you dont have a tagged partner (although for some reason i didnt check to see what it does). I think these are the only noticeble changes I saw in the 1.2 update (since I didnt try to use grapple, ambush, bounty or surrender) and I might check later also for any issues related to speech submit.

 

I think you are getting some things confused.  I have made absolutely no changes with regard to any actual Sexlab Framework functions.  The StartSex() and hooks and everything else in Submit is the exact same code that was there from when I was using SL Framework 1.14.  So, Framework 1.2 has no bearing on anything regarding speech and dialogs.  I *will* be updating the Sexlab based functions once I read up on how things are expected to be done now, but as of yet I have done nothing to them.

 

FNIS's beta 4 has an impact because of the IdleDefault bug that made it stop working correctly, which is why there are the reports of the beatdown killing NPCs (and also the Player before I made the change to the Player surrender)  But Framework 1.2 is just a coincidence of the fact that it used the beta 4, which had the underlying bug.

 

But neither the Framework nor FNIS has any bearing on dialogs, as that is just straightforward Skyrim Quest entries like all dialog.

 

In a recent update, to which I have patch notes for a reason, due to the fact that Skyrim strips active magic effects from NPC's when you leave a cell, the "rejected" check was getting broken, allowing you to leave/enter a cell and re-ask NPC indefinitely, which was never the intent.  So, I changed the system to allow you to ask as many times as you like, albeit with a -15% penalty to your chances until you succeed.

 

Since you can try indefinitely, I figured getting speech XP for failure wasn't necessary, since you could just keep trying until you succeeded if you really wanted to.

 

Now, the part about the 3-some being there even if there isn't someone in your party?  Hrm, odd, I just checked and I saw that myself.  So yep, that's a bug on my part.  I recently added a secondary check, so maybe I made a typo regarding that, but it's on my end, and has nothing to do with the Framework or FNIS, since it's just a dialog check.

 

It's late, so I'll look into it tomorrow after work.

[00bc]

Wow I think I forgot about that update because all I remember was everyone talking about submit and surrender killing, so my mistake. Would this mean that the penalty is stackable on repeated failure? I have to retry getting the solo threesome dialogue to make sure it wasnt just something happening from me failing speech checks on other people.

[Lodakai]

 

Well I got the hotfix for sexlab.. the beta 4_2 manual installs from FNIS and the latest submit.  Still get killmove kills.  Probably something I missed I'm sure.  But theres my update from earlier =p

I'm going to ask the obvious, after you installed the beta 4.2, did you re-run the tools for users?

 

That is all I did, and it fixed the idledefault issue.  (I still have the weird floating positions and partner stuck in the last position loop if the ragdoll is used in the Framework)  But the beatdown issue was fixed for me.

 

 

 

Yes.. ran the tool with skeleton fix enabled.  But I am also using separate paths for females as well. Using the XP32 skeleton.  I'll give it another go tomorrow.   I'm sure it's got something to do with my setup.  I'll probably need to re-install to try to get rid of some loose / orphaned files.

[dkatryl]

Wow I think I forgot about that update because all I remember was everyone talking about submit and surrender killing, so my mistake. Would this mean that the penalty is stackable on repeated failure? I have to retry getting the solo threesome dialogue to make sure it wasnt just something happening from me failing speech checks on other people.

The stacking penalty is something I had considered, similar to the stacking penalty for the Grapple/Shout, etc, but as of now, it is just a single flat -15% that is removed after the next time you succeed.

 

I still like the idea of the stacking, since you keep pestering them, and I might go back and do that, maybe even have them push you away in anger after you've failed too many times in a row kind of thing, but that would take a few more levels of faction tags, or setting the rank of the one, etc.

 

I'll probably do it, but for now I just wanted to do baby steps on the change, make sure the change from magiceffect check to faction check worked.

 

The 3-some seems to be bugged and showing erroneously, but should have nothing to do with failure/success.  It is simply checking HasTeammate >= 1 and a Global that checks # followers.  I saw it show up, so I can reproduce it, which means I can troubleshoot it.

[Lodakai]

I get the 3 person dialogue as well.  Although I am usually going through the startup ritual through Helgen... so could it be that it is registering Ralof as a team-mate?  It could also be a byproduct of the follower mod that I am using (Alternating between AFT and EFF in the past few tries).  

 

On a similar subject to being annoying through your dialogue.. the kick in the nuts was a nice touch!  I appreciate that you did that..  although my nostrils didn't approve when the resulting soda shot through them after the first time I ran into that.   A crunch and ouch sound and a trip animation WOULD make it just about perfect.  But it was still pretty damn hilarious.

 

EDIT:  I am also using Interesting NPC's  I assume that COULD have some effect.  Not sure.

[dkatryl]

I get the 3 person dialogue as well.  Although I am usually going through the startup ritual through Helgen... so could it be that it is registering Ralof as a team-mate?  It could also be a byproduct of the follower mod that I am using (Alternating between AFT and EFF in the past few tries).  

 

On a similar subject to being annoying through your dialogue.. the kick in the nuts was a nice touch!  I appreciate that you did that..  although my nostrils didn't approve when the resulting soda shot through them after the first time I ran into that.   A crunch and ouch sound and a trip animation WOULD make it just about perfect.  But it was still pretty damn hilarious.

 

EDIT:  I am also using Interesting NPC's  I assume that COULD have some effect.  Not sure.

The 3-person dialog is just bugged.  I definitely did something wrong, and only confirmed that it wasn't working correctly late last night before I went to bed, so I won't have an opportunity to actually look at what boneheaded thing I did until tonight after work.  I'm sure it will be obvious and I'll go, "oh, duh", but won't know until tonight.

 

But I'm not entirely sure what the second paragraph meant?

[Benmc20]

I've installed this mod to replace the Defeat 3.2 (part testing part problem with the other mod - see the Defeat topic). But i have a configuration ... well ... exotic :

- Skyrim latest patch

- SKSE latest (i think)

- SkyUI latest

- FNUS 4.0 beta 3 (FNIS behavior for users okay)

- and Sexlab Framework 1.15b

 

Does this configuration have the "kill target" bug ?

 

 

Edit > OK this partially works. The details :

- you can be raped (happened one time)

- you can't rape anyone (as playing a female and potential victims are males, no idea if it is intentional)

 

I haven't tested the consensual part for now.

[MythicMiss]

DK, with the latest script, I had an interesting interaction.

 

After becoming Thane, I decided to get into a threesome with Irileth and Balgruuf. I picked up Irileth first, and when I went to talk to Balgruuf, I only got the one-on-one option. So I picked him up, which dropped Irileth. Went back, sweet-talked Irileth again...

 

...and Balgruuf proceeded to slurp my strap-on while I smootched Irileth.

 

These Nords are fuckin' kinky, man.

 

(Not game-breaking at all, I just thought it was amusing. )