Old HDT Support Thread.

[arthurh3535]

WHich is probably a good thing. I've got a 4GB video card (only with the slightly over PCI-E video bus slot) and 8GB. I don't have a lot of probablems with Skyrim since I turned down shadows  and object distances.

[Monsto Brukes]

New version, updated.

 

For BBP effects, continue using 7-22.

[sullivan]

New version, updated.

 

For BBP effects, continue using 7-22.

 

Are you guys using the 7-22 version on you main saves? I stopped using it after the first version, because i wanted to wait until it's bug free, but since there seems to be no new bbp versions i would like to try the 7-22 version.

 

So are you able to use it without to many crahes, save game bloat and stuff?

[Asakaze]

 

New version, updated.

 

For BBP effects, continue using 7-22.

 

Are you guys using the 7-22 version on you main saves? I stopped using it after the first version, because i wanted to wait until it's bug free, but since there seems to be no new bbp versions i would like to try the 7-22 version.

 

So are you able to use it without to many crahes, save game bloat and stuff?

 

 

That version certainly does reduce the crashing and save bloats from the previous version

 

[canderes]

There is a hdtcbbe.xml where hydrogen stores her uploads. If you want to add bounce to an existing cbbe mesh you can just tack on the string data for that xml. Just open the dress for an example and look for the hdt havok path (it is a extrastringdata branch) and copy it over to the cbbe mesh. If the skeleton hierarchy matches you can paste it regardless of if it is cbbe or whatever; the skeleton matches and the breasts\butt are rigged. It should work on newer versions of the plugin.

[Uriel]

So are you able to use it without to many crahes, save game bloat and stuff?

For god's sake, this plugin has nothing to do with scripts and savegames. What kind of bloat are you talking about?

[Kanon1]

I've been using 7-22 for some time now and it's worked rather swimmingly.

What do these new versions offer that is an improvement over 7-22?

[Monsto Brukes]

Since I am a tard, and hit an immediate road block, i'm going to break this down to see if I can get it.
 

There is a hdtcbbe.xml where hydrogen stores her uploads.

 

I saw that. Check.

 

 

If you want to add bounce to an existing cbbe mesh you can just tack on the string data for that xml.

 

alright. simple concept.

 

 

Just open the dress for an example and look for the hdt havok path (it is a extrastringdata branch) and copy it over to the cbbe mesh.

 

>_< tard gene kicks in

did you mean NiStringExtraData? I found that. copied the path: Data\meshes\clothes\NPRChinaDress\hdtNPRChinaDress.xml

 

 

If the skeleton hierarchy matches you can paste it regardless of if it is cbbe or whatever;

 

paste it where? into the mesh that you want to use?

and by this time, i'm guessing that i should copy the block instead of just the path?

 

 

the skeleton matches and the breasts\butt are rigged. It should work on newer versions of the plugin.

 

which i'm understanding to mean that as long as I'm using a tbbp breast bone skeleton (xpms) that this should work as in the past.

Alright I have someth to work with. Here goes nothin...

... Standby

 

 

[edit] alright I got it workin, it's a simple process. I'll write up details for the pervs a bit later.

 

 

[Vioxsis]

A quick tutorial for you monsto

 

 

Open your body/armour nif (with T/BBP weighting) in nifskope.

 

 

 

 

Right click the block list and go to Block and click insert.

 

 

 

 

Then go to NiS... and click NiStringExtraData.

 

 

 

 

In block details right click the value for name and click edit string index.

 

 

 

 

Type HDT Havok Path and click OK (Make sure to use caps where shown)

 

 

 

 

Right click the value for string data click edit string index, and type the path to your .xml

in my case "Data\meshes\actors\character\character assets female\hdtCBBE.xml"

and click OK

 

 

 

 

Click on the NiNode in the block list and in block details change the num extra data list value to 1

 

 

 

 

Double click the green refresh arrows just below and add the number the NiStringExtraData is using in the block list,

It is "0" in this case.

 

Click save as and do the same for the _1 body/armour.

 

 

it doesn't matter if the body is cbbe or unp as long as it is weighted for bbp.

 

 

*edit* Just read your edit, well it can still be useful for others.

[hanswallein]

hi, i have a question

 

the butt and the breasts of dead female are horrible disformed, how can i fix this?

[jacques00]

Aw man, I just tried out the 9-20 version and applied the necessary changes to the nude .nif. I am happy to say that it worked better than I expected. I mean, I didn't think anything of it because I figured it would I would have to repeat the process over and over for all the other armor/clothes meshes, but for testing purposes, I just stuck to the nude mesh.

 

So I loaded up the game, noticed the clothed character animates without physics. Good, as expected. Then I proceed to remove her clothing and the HDT Physics went into play (bit of jittering due to it clashing a bit with the skeleton_female.hkx file, but that could be fixed by removing it). Good, as expected. So I made the character run around a bit to check for any anomalies, and it performed like the 7-22 version, just not as universally implemented. Then I transitioned from third-person into first-person...

 

fhqwhgads.

 

The physics carried over into first-person too. Which is awesome. I know it probably isn't something new since I've seen this happen before with cloth on one of the early cloth-test versions I tested. I was just surprised it works with the body physics now, something the 7-22 version doesn't seem to implement. Keep in mind, I'm using an optimized skeleton package compiled by Liuli and Groovtama (which can be found here), so I am unsure if that has anything to do with it specifically--though it's probably more that the physics is attached to the mesh than to a specific skeleton.

 

So that's the good news, at least on my end.

 

---

 

I also did some testing on the giants mod I am slowly working on and tried to implement the physics to the female giants meshes. Even though the mesh I tested on didn't have any weights applied to CBBE-related nodes, I wanted to see if it would produce a crash on load... and it did.

 

Normally, if a node doesn't exist or doesn't have any influence in the mesh file, it shouldn't produce a crash, you just wouldn't see the animation. However, if the node didn't exist in the skeleton file and the mesh can't find it's corresponding node, that's when the crash happens (like using BBP meshes with the vanilla skeleton). So I assume something doesn't quite match in the skeleton to the .xml file (probably naming convention and/or node hierarchy, as I'm linking the giantess mesh to hdtCBBE.xml). If anyone has any extra details on this matter feel free to share.

 

I'm hoping the HDT physics system can be carried across to custom/creature skeletons as well, so the physics on cloth/hair/body can play even when you have different species of actors on the screen.

[Vioxsis]

The xml references the bones on the skeleton and the skeleton of course references the mesh.

So the physics is applied to your skeleton not the mesh.

 

This also explains why the giant crashed your game

 

 

And i see no reason why it can't be carried over to monsters or any thing else.

 

If you want i could have a go at doing a simple rig, to see if it would work?

 

[jacques00]

The xml references the bones on the skeleton and the skeleton of course references the mesh.

So the physics is applied to your skeleton not the mesh.

 

This also explains why the giant crashed your game

 

 

And i see no reason why it can't be carried over to monsters or any thing else.

 

If you want i could have a go at doing a simple rig, to see if it would work?

Oh yes, I'm completely aware that the physics are applied the skeleton--I was just mentioning that the physics link is made in the mesh instead of elsewhere, which may explain why the physics are visible in first-person (but I could just be making bogus assumptions!).

 

The crashes I am a bit iffy on the culprits exactly. I know I applied the node as instructed and the mesh works fine without it (sans the physics of course). But once the physics link is made, something becomes incompatible and that results in a crash. I think, most likely, it would be the part where "the xml references the bones on the skeleton".

 

Sure feel free--If you are talking about the giants mod specifically, you can use the skeleton and mesh assets provided in the mod. I would definitely like to know your results and thanks for offering to test!

[canderes]

Jacques if you are using an xml you made you must change the toplevelobject to point to the number of the hkpphysicssystem near the bottom of the file; it doesn't know what to do with your file if it is pointing at something else. Sometimes it will cause the plugin to ctd, sometimes it doesn't, but you will want to add the nodes to the giant skeleton instead of loading a plain old humanoid/beast skeleton.

[Monsto Brukes]

 

 

I started out trying to copy the block from the demo dress to my ADEC 2.3 femalebody_0/1. The block copied, the data didn't. so i entered the data exactly as you said.

 

The only thing i didn't do was the last 2 steps in your tute . . . the "0" and the "1" entries. Necessary? who knows. bottom line is that I'm going to copy your tute pics and all to the OP. Thanks for doing that. 

 

My question is this: can the .xml be modded to change the properties of the physics? I looked for and changed the values that canderes said in the other thread when I asked that, but to no effect. that xml file is a pretty big playground of parameters to surf thru. 

 

I'm dog-ass tired right now. will mess with it later.

[jacques00]

Jacques if you are using an xml you made you must change the toplevelobject to point to the number of the hkpphysicssystem near the bottom of the file; it doesn't know what to do with your file if it is pointing at something else. Sometimes it will cause the plugin to ctd, sometimes it doesn't, but you will want to add the nodes to the giant skeleton instead of loading a plain old humanoid/beast skeleton.

Well part of my issue would probably be because I did not make the .xml myself--I was using the hdtcbbe.xml for that. Which is probably why the incompatibility. I don't have a havok development kit/plugins, so I am unaware of how to make my own .xml. I'll probably look into that in particular later, but I don't have the time at the moment.

 

As for the skeleton, the crashing mesh doesn't use the humanoid skeleton, it's using a modified skeleton with the bbp and other nodes added on (but again, I'm unsure if it's the naming or hierarchy that's mismatched since the skeletons are a bit different in that respect).

[Vioxsis]

The last two step are to nest/link the NiStringExtraData in/to the NiNode, its only necessary if its not already nested, and in most cases its probably not so yes its necessary.

 

 

And yes you can change some properties by editing the xml (like canderes said)

friction and restitution are easy to find in the xml

No idea where or how mass is stored.

 

 

 

 

Both of them can go from 0 to 100 (set to .5 and .8 in the pic) 

 

Friction controls how easy the joint moves

and restitution controls how the joint tries to return to its original position. (i think )  

 

 

There are a few other parameters you could change but with out knowing there axis or were the child is its not very practical.

Hell even if you did know its still not practical.

 

All other changes would need to be made in max. 

[HydrogensaysHDT]

The last two step are to nest/link the NiStringExtraData in/to the NiNode, its only necessary if its not already nested, and in most cases its probably not so yes its necessary.

 

 

And yes you can change some properties by editing the xml (like canderes said)

friction and restitution are easy to find in the xml

No idea where or how mass is stored.

 

 

 

 

Both of them can go from 0 to 100 (set to .5 and .8 in the pic) 

 

Friction controls how easy the joint moves

and restitution controls how the joint tries to return to its original position. (i think )  

 

 

There are a few other parameters you could change but with out knowing there axis or were the child is its not very practical.

Hell even if you did know its still not practical.

 

All other changes would need to be made in max. 

mass store in invInertiaAndMass.w

if something is 2kg, then invInertiaAndMass.w = 0.5 (1/2kg)

but mass only effect when hit

 

[jacques00]

There are a few other parameters you could change but with out knowing there axis or were the child is its not very practical.

Hell even if you did know its still not practical.

 

All other changes would need to be made in max. 

Yea, I looked through the .xml file to see if I could sort out the skeleton compatibility issue (just me assuming), and I couldn't make heads or tails of it (too many values!)--I figured I would need to export such a file using parameters from Max and such (to which I have yet to sort out).

 

[Vioxsis]

Jacques

 

I made a simple rig and used it to replace the vanilla giant.

 

With 7-22 nothing really happens but in the log i have

 

[09/22/13 03:30:17]INFO: Physics system loaded : DATA\MESHES\actors\giant\character assets\FG.xml
[09/22/13 03:30:17]WARNING: Cannot bind bone : e214f6c0 keyframe - bone doesn't exist
[09/22/13 03:30:17]ERROR: Illegal hkx file : e214f6c0 keyframe - Fixed/Keyframed body without binding!

 

 

But if you wear it as a armour (really funny) the physics work...

 

and with 9-20 it just crashes to desktop.

 

Here are the nif and xml i used for the test.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/1hychk9occc9ggr/F-giant.7z

 

 

 HydrogensaysHDT

 

Good to know, there were quite a few entry's for 'mass'.

 

[Monsto Brukes]

The last two step are to nest/link the NiStringExtraData in/to the NiNode, its only necessary if its not already nested, and in most cases its probably not so yes its necessary.

 

 

And yes you can change some properties by editing the xml (like canderes said)

friction and restitution are easy to find in the xml

No idea where or how mass is stored.

 

 

 

 

Both of them can go from 0 to 100 (set to .5 and .8 in the pic) 

 

Friction controls how easy the joint moves

and restitution controls how the joint tries to return to its original position. (i think )  

 

 

There are a few other parameters you could change but with out knowing there axis or were the child is its not very practical.

Hell even if you did know its still not practical.

 

All other changes would need to be made in max. 

 

I saw those. thanks.

 

ALL other changes? 

 

So changes to say tension or gravity would have to be made in max, to the mesh directly, then exported?

 

Heh I suppose that's whwat the conversation in the other thread is about . . . how exactly to make those changes, and where, so that the mesh can display the effect.

[canderes]

I think that the problem with editing rigid bodies using hct or in xml form is that the parameters you setup aren't "fully" implemented. There is another filter used for setting up gravity, coordinate space and a bunch of other shit, create world or something; the plugin doesn't load world data if you add it to the xml because it is only looking for rigid bodies and constraints. I never read much into the vampire lord cloak but I remember someone mentioning that there are variables used by skyrim that affect the cloth. I don't know if the extension uses that data or if it loads what is local to the xml, which would be just some object space transformations.

 

I think the giant file is messed up because prune types wasn't included. There's a bunch of class data included in the xml. Add prune type and check every box except the root level pruning at the very bottom. I'll try to try to rig up the male with an erect body and see if I have the same problem.

 

I was planning on testing wolves/horses first, but it would make sense to try it on humanoids first.

[HydrogensaysHDT]

Jacques

 

I made a simple rig and used it to replace the vanilla giant.

 

With 7-22 nothing really happens but in the log i have

 

[09/22/13 03:30:17]INFO: Physics system loaded : DATA\MESHES\actors\giant\character assets\FG.xml

[09/22/13 03:30:17]WARNING: Cannot bind bone : e214f6c0 keyframe - bone doesn't exist

[09/22/13 03:30:17]ERROR: Illegal hkx file : e214f6c0 keyframe - Fixed/Keyframed body without binding!

 

 

But if you wear it as a armour (really funny) the physics work...

 

and with 9-20 it just crashes to desktop.

 

Here are the nif and xml i used for the test.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/1hychk9occc9ggr/F-giant.7z

 

 

 HydrogensaysHDT

 

Good to know, there were quite a few entry's for 'mass'.

 

I don't know what's wrong. It didn't crashed when I weared it as a armor...

 

[Monsto Brukes]

The last two step are to nest/link the NiStringExtraData in/to the NiNode, its only necessary if its not already nested, and in most cases its probably not so yes its necessary.

 

 

And yes you can change some properties by editing the xml (like canderes said)

friction and restitution are easy to find in the xml

No idea where or how mass is stored.

 

 

 

 

Both of them can go from 0 to 100 (set to .5 and .8 in the pic) 

 

Friction controls how easy the joint moves

and restitution controls how the joint tries to return to its original position. (i think )  

 

 

There are a few other parameters you could change but with out knowing there axis or were the child is its not very practical.

Hell even if you did know its still not practical.

 

All other changes would need to be made in max. 

 

It occurred to me that the reason I didn't need to set those 2 items was because I copied the block as opposed to creating it from scratch.

 

 

[Monsto Brukes]

Updated the op:

 

Added the 9-20 setup tutorial to the main post.

Added a credits section (long overdue, yes i am a moron).

Changed the Release Notes to reflect new information based on 9-20.

Attached the zip archive.