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TODAY I GOT BANNED FROM THE NEXUS AND I GOT SO PISSED FCK!

Mailamea

By Mailamea,
in General Discussion

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GrimReaper

GrimReaper

Posted
Posted

But let's put a positive spin on this and educate me. What possible appeal is there to playing Fallout as a child character' date=' and taking it to the next step of making a shojo race full of skimpy outfits to do it if it's not about sexual kink? I've seen screenshots of these shojos running around in PE dresses and raider armor and using scaled down Type 3 bodies so they become obviously naked when stripped. If it's not pedophilia, then what is it?

[/quote']

 

Why would you want to play a rape mod for Oblivion if you are not a rapist?

 

Why would you want to play a game like Hitman or GTA when you are not a murderer?

 

Why do you watch horror movies?

 

 

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LilDevil

LilDevil

Posted
Posted

@GrimReaper

Well, rape in Oblivion is about as real as a couple in a porn movie.

Sure it says to rape a character, but is it really rape? There is no identifier that says it is other than the fact you get some bounty gold, and while having the sex the characters are moaning together. That is not rape, that's just normal sex that you one has to believe is rape.

 

 

Going to answer the questions for lolz.

1. The whole domination thing is kinda cool, though more on the soft side.

2. It allows me to take out my problems and angry on a controlled enviroment instead of doing it with my 12 gauge and a liquor store.

3. I like seeing how stupid they are and I find most of them funny, and knowing they aren't real. If I want to get scared I should walk down to downtown San Bernadino.

 

 

I'm not going to comment on the loli thing because it's a super massive red flag for HanPL. Also me not seeing this Shojo race or using any sort of loli thing makes not fit to comment on the matter, hope you guys can respect that.

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GrimReaper

GrimReaper

Posted
Posted

@GrimReaper

Well' date=' rape in Oblivion is about as real as a couple in a porn movie.

Sure it says to rape a character, but is it really rape? There is no identifier that says it is other than the fact you get some bounty gold, and while having the sex the characters are moaning together. That is not rape, that's just normal sex that you one has to believe is rape.

 

 

Going to answer the questions for lolz.

1. The whole domination thing is kinda cool, though more on the soft side.

2. It allows me to take out my problems and angry on a controlled enviroment instead of doing it with my 12 gauge and a liquor store.

3. I like seeing how stupid they are and I find most of them funny, and knowing they aren't real. If I want to get scared I should walk down to downtown San Bernadino.

 

 

I'm not going to comment on the loli thing because it's a super massive red flag for HanPL. Also me not seeing this Shojo race or using any sort of loli thing makes not fit to comment on the matter, hope you guys can respect that.

[/quote']

 

All I wanted is to point out the flaw in Loogie's logic and argumentation. He basically says the following: If you enjoy loli related content in a game there can't be another conclusion other than that you are indeed a pedophile. And that would mean if you enjoy rape content in a game that you have to be a rapist or someone who plays with the thought of actually going out and rape women. If you enjoy killing NPCs that would mean that you would enjoy killing people IRL etc.

 

My point is the following: The human mind can distinguish between reality and vituality (at least this is what scientists say and I believe them, personally). That means that you can enjoy rape in a non-real environment such as a game but at the same time you can hate rape in the real world. Fantasy does not equal reality.

 

I am not complaining about the rules here on LoversLab btw, because I don't own this place and I have no right whatsoever to say how Ashal should handle things.

 

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GrimReaper

GrimReaper

Posted
Posted

I hope so' date='

people can still make the difference between videogames and reality, otherwise we're quiet screw'd with all those copies of GTA sold xD

 

But we still have to put some limit to prevent being "borderline".

[/quote']

 

Yeah, that's the job of the guys and gals who own the site. And not some random user. Of course that doesn't mean there shouldn't be any dialog between the administration and the community at all, but that should always be done in a civil way and without too much emotions. "I accuse you of being this and that, you unworthy being!" is not the civil way, btw. :D

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tomfoolery

tomfoolery

Posted
Posted

Well I know how they act from CLS experience...

we had few idiots who where making new accounts and thumbing down the mod.

I did some checkings on one guy who was making new accounts (IP tracking etc ) and it was obvious it's the same guy.. so I did send him PM asking why he does it + in comment..of course no anwser..later send PM to moddernator.

 

Irregardless' date=' you clearly did not take any notice of that bit about not antagonizing the poster. Posting your suspicions publicly is just plain inexcusable and now prevents me from being able to look into the matter very well even if this were the case. [/quote']

 

So um yea...I don't even visit Nexus now and if I have to then I just sit quiet and don't write anything just to avoid ban.

 

It's funny, because "irregardless" is a contradiction. What he meant to say was "regardless". You see, when you put "ir" in front of it, it's a bit like a double-negative(like saying 'I didn't not do that").

 

Lol, he fails at grammar.

 

I suggest sending him the following:

 

 

english.png

 

 

 

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Guest Loogie

Guest Loogie

Posted
Posted

Why would you want to play a rape mod for Oblivion if you are not a rapist?

 

I find it odd you're deflecting questions to me instead of simply explaining the motivations I wish be educated on' date=' but I'll bite. Let's keep in mind, when I talk about kiddie porn, I'm talking about people who haven't gone through puberty. While illegal, being attracted to a fully developed 16 old would be natural as they are biologically an adult.

 

I've responded to this line of reasoning at least twice on the board. Rape fantasy is different from pedo fantasy in that rape fantasies occur between adults who consent to what's happening - in this case, modder and player. Since children are not sexually mature, and not legally allowed to have sex, a modder cannot consent for them; imagining the reaction of putting a child porn mod in front of a child should illustrate this nicely.

 

Putting aside the feelings of dominance, helplessness and personal psychology heightening sexual excitement, one of the reasons I enjoy rape fantasy is I'm attracted to women. I don't think a pedo can have a kiddie porn fantasy without being attracted to kids. Being attracted to women is appropriate; being attracted to children is not. And hiding behind the fact it's pixels is bullshit; using that logic pixels representing a pile of dog shit should be as attractive as pixels representing a beautiful woman.

 

Why would you want to play a game like Hitman or GTA when you are not a murderer?

 

To live out a violent fantasy. Feeling anger, taking it out safely, and imagining a life you can never have is appropriate. Being sexually attracted to children is not.

 

Why do you watch horror movies?

 

To laugh. Only horror movie that's ever actually scared me is The Thing. Being scared of The Thing is appropriate. Being sexually attracted to children is not.

 

So, my question still stands: How can someone dress up pre-pubescent characters in slutty clothing and parade them around without being attracted to children?

 

With your logic one would have no other choice than come to the conclusion that LoversLab is crawling with misogynists and rapists. Is that so? I don't think so.

 

I've already burned that strawman to the ground.

 

Also I think it speaks for itself that you assume that I may be a pedophile myself just because I don't agree with you. "If you are not with me, you are against me."

 

I'm not assuming anything. There's a lot of people who aren't with me I'm completely neutral to.

 

Btw. I am not upset in any way. Why should I?

 

As I said, if you're not part of a certain class of people who use shojo mods for kiddie porn - which I doubt you are - there's no reason to get upset. I was just wondering what application other than kiddie porn putting massive amounts of children in such a gritty game there is.

 

A warning would have been futile, considering your statement that you don't want to be civil towards people who you consider to be not worthy.

 

I'm civil with a lot of people I dislike. I'm not civil with open pedophiles. If you think being a smartass is an incurable condition people should be cast out for, I don't agree with that line of reasoning.

 

Just to remind you, I am neither defending the nexus staff nor blaming you, I am just stating my opinion on that matter. Which is, that I think some sort of action against you was justified.

 

Some sort of action was justified. The Vampire Dante acting like a whiny emo bitch and not talking things out like an adult is not.

 

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UDLR

UDLR

Posted
Posted

Sorry they banned you. I feel like I see too many posts about them being too happy with the ban-hammer.

 

 

Have to admit, I've never understood the Fallout community's stance on using resources from other mods. Fallout/Oblivion isn't the first game I've downloaded mods for, nor the first which I've actively participated in modding. I've never seen such rampant "OMG THEY DIDN'T GIVE YOU PERMISSION TO USE THAT OMGOMGOMG" attitude. What's the big deal?

 

I always thought the point was to build nice mods and expand on other's work, just like we're expanding on the base game. Nobody asked Bethesda for permission did they? (Admittedly they gave us to the tools to, but that wasn't true for other games I've modded.) In the past I always took the policy that if they didn't explicitly say otherwise, it was free game to use their stuff as long as proper credit was given. In fact, it was always my hope that I'd make work good enough to see other modders incorporate it into their stuff.

 

 

Randomly on the Shojo topic... When I first played FO3, I grabbed a bunch of mods including that one and got started with the game. After progressing to the adult stage I was like "wtf? I'm a kid still". Console -> setscale 1.1 (or about that) and went along my merry way. Was using regular type3 body, so the only noticeable difference was my head was comically huge. Clearly I did not get the point of the Shojo mod. Thought it was required to use the AEV armors... Found out just this year that it wasn't!

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GrimReaper

GrimReaper

Posted
Posted

I find it odd you're deflecting questions to me instead of simply explaining the motivations I wish be educated on' date=' but I'll bite. Let's keep in mind, when I talk about kiddie porn, I'm talking about people who haven't gone through puberty. While illegal, being attracted to a fully developed 16 old would be natural as they are biologically an adult.

[/quote']

Careful there - there are 12 year old girls out there that would be considered a biologically adult then.

 

I've responded to this line of reasoning at least twice on the board. Rape fantasy is different from pedo fantasy in that rape fantasies occur between adults who consent to what's happening - in this case' date=' modder and player. Since children are not sexually mature, and not legally allowed to have sex, a modder cannot consent for them; imagining the reaction of putting a child porn mod in front of a child should illustrate this nicely.

[/quote']

It's not between the modder and the player if you rape NPCs in Oblivion. It's not an IRL rape roleplay. The game suggests that the NPC is indeed raped and not just part of a fantasy between modder and player.

 

Putting aside the feelings of dominance' date=' helplessness and personal psychology heightening sexual excitement, one of the reasons I enjoy rape fantasy is I'm attracted to women. I don't think a pedo can have a kiddie porn fantasy without being attracted to kids. Being attracted to women is appropriate; being attracted to children is not. And hiding behind the fact it's pixels is bullshit; using that logic pixels representing a pile of dog shit should be as attractive as pixels representing a beautiful woman.

[/quote']

Sorry, but rape itself has nothing to do with women - rape just means that you force someone into having sex* with you. Rape is not gender exclusive. So that's that aside, would you enjoy said feelings that obviously come from virtual rape in the real world, too?

 

*sex means any sexual action, you can rape someone without having penetrative sex.

 

To live out a violent fantasy. Feeling anger' date=' taking it out safely, and imagining a life you can never have is appropriate. Being sexually attracted to children is not.

 

 

To laugh. Only horror movie that's ever actually scared me is The Thing. Being scared of The Thing is appropriate. Being sexually attracted to children is not.

[/quote']

So you say that you can enjoy things in a virtual world which you would condemn in the real world? Like killing people for fun or to blow of steam?

 

As I said' date=' if you're not part of a certain class of people who use shojo mods for kiddie porn - which I doubt you are - there's no reason to get upset. I was just wondering what application other than kiddie porn putting massive amounts of children in such a gritty game there is.

[/quote']

Well, you could have those mods for other reasons. For example immersion. In a world like Fallout children wouldn't be treated as nicely as they are treated in our society. Just look at 3rd world countries. Children are used as soldiers, drug runners, slaves, prostitutes etc.

 

A world like the Fallout world would corrupt humans aka forcing them into actions that they wouldn't do otherwise but the circumstances require it. Ever watched the movie "The Road"? Now imagine how that movie would have turned out without the boy.

 

An entirely other thing is what I came across on some image boards like 4chan and the like. Some folks there claim that they like virtual loli content but dislike children IRL. I don't know if that's true or not, but in my opinion that would certainly be possible - just like the fact that you can love virtual rape and hate it IRL.

 

 

And agreed on Dante. I don't know him, but if he is like some other moderators I've seen in action than he is a dumbass, yes.

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Tregarin

Tregarin

Posted
Posted

Careful there - there are 12 year old girls out there that would be considered a biologically adult then.

Careful there' date=' you appear to be insinuating that Loogie is a pedophile. (oh wait... aren't you trying to chew Loogie out over doing that kind of thing to others? Do as I say, not as I do, huh?)

It's not between the modder and the player if you rape NPCs in Oblivion. It's not an IRL rape roleplay. The game suggests that the NPC is indeed raped and not just part of a fantasy between modder and player.

Given that it relies utterly on how the Modder has scripted things, how in the name of hell can it be anything except between the modder and the player???

 

Seriously... it is nothing more than the scripted responses of the NPC (scripted by the modder) and the chosen actions of the player. It is exactly like IRL pre-scripted rape fantasy... and it being pre-scripted makes no difference.

 

 

Honestly, what you've just tried to claim is that when you play Oblivion, it's not between you and the game devs... and that is one hell of a stupid thing to claim.

 

To live out a violent fantasy. Feeling anger' date=' taking it out safely, and imagining a life you can never have is appropriate. Being sexually attracted to children is not.

 

 

To laugh. Only horror movie that's ever actually scared me is The Thing. Being scared of The Thing is appropriate. Being sexually attracted to children is not.

[/quote']

So you say that you can enjoy things in a virtual world which you would condemn in the real world? Like killing people for fun or to blow of steam?

Difference being that they've shown that simulated kiddie porn is just a stepping stone to the real thing... in most cases. Shooting NPC's in the head or watching a horror movie? Not so much.

 

This is why they clamp down so very hard on simulated kiddie porn, but not on (just for an example) a game where you can dismember a corpse just for kicks after you've blown it's head apart with an AM Rifle.

 

 

So, now that that is out of the way, what was your point again?

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LilDevil

LilDevil

Posted
Posted

Oh, plz don't take what I'm about to say to the letter, it's been a long time since I was on Hongfire.

 

It has been shown(examples being Japan and other nations) that as the content gets more graphic or disturbing the actual RL crimes go down that would be associated. Japan has one of the lowest cases of child related rape in the world and allow loli(though I heard this may have been changed).

 

Example would be the game Rapelay.

 

Feminist groups from the UK were outraged that a game that not only contains the domination and rape of women, but of a young girl also.

Though Japan shrugged this off stating that they should worry about their high rates of rape instead of Japan's. Though, one could say their are many rapes, but out of shame they are never reported so we cannot know if these results are accurate.

 

Just throwing some facts (if at all can be called facts :s) into the pot, feel free to rip them apart. I'm just surprised that these is still an argument going on in our poor mailamea10's rant. I leave it at everyone has their perversions, just keep it to yourself.

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Tregarin

Tregarin

Posted
Posted

@Tregarin:

 

Sorry' date=' but I won't respond to you. Mainly because this is a discussion between Loogie and me and not between you and me.[/quote']

Then do it in private... if you have a public discussion, other people are going to contribute. Just like you did when you injected yourself into a discussion that didn't involve you.

Another thing is that you don't seem to understand what my point is and I hate repeating myself.

Your point appears to be that if you agree to rape fantasy, then you agree to kiddie rape fantasy... with an added point that anything that shows a difference between the two is to be ignored.

 

Maybe I don't understand your point, but since that is what you are banging on about with Loogie, if I don't understand then you don't actually HAVE a point.

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Tregarin

Tregarin

Posted
Posted

Oh' date=' plz don't take what I'm about to say to the letter, it's been a long time since I was on Hongfire.

 

It has been shown(examples being Japan and other nations) that as the content gets more graphic or disturbing the actual RL crimes go down that would be associated. Japan has one of the lowest cases of child related rape in the world and allow loli(though I heard this may have been changed).

 

Example would be the game Rapelay.

 

Feminist groups from the UK were outraged that a game that not only contains the domination and rape of women, but of a young girl also.

Though Japan shrugged this off stating that they should worry about their high rates of rape instead of Japan's. Though, one could say their are many rapes, but out of shame they are never reported so we cannot know if these results are accurate.

[/quote']

Yeah... I heard the fuss about that... and yes, even the police are on record as stating that the vast majority of rape goes unreported there. (though they also admit that the numbers of reported rapes are sky-rocketing)

 

 

This entire subject is way to complex to have any kind of resolution reached on a forum... all we can do is point out the holes in people logic and arguments, then agree to disagree if no agreement can be reached.

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GrimReaper

GrimReaper

Posted
Posted

 

Then do it in private... if you have a public discussion' date=' other people are going to contribute. Just like you did when you injected yourself into a discussion that didn't involve you.

[/quote']

I don't have any obligation to respond to you. Just as Loogie doesn't need to respond to me if he doesn't want to or vice versa. A public discussion means that anyone can participate but that doesn't mean you have to respond to everyone that is participating.

 

Your point appears to be that if you agree to rape fantasy' date=' then you agree to kiddie rape fantasy... with an added point that anything that shows a difference between the two is to be ignored.

 

Maybe I don't understand your point, but since that is what you are banging on about with Loogie, if I don't understand then you don't actually HAVE a point.

[/quote']

No, I am just asking questions. As I see it, there are no real differences between any kind of action that takes place in a virtual environment. Nobody gets hurt and humans neither do the things they do in the virtual world in the real world nor would they want to do these things in the real world.

 

As of now, I didn't see an argument that would render my theory wrong. If you say loli content can only be enjoyed by pedophiles then I can say rape can only be enjoyed by rapists. There is no real difference here, you just want that there is a difference.

 

There are a lot of people out there that would love to see you locked up in jail for playing a game about rape. Their arguments are the same as yours.

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Daguy

Daguy

Posted
Posted

Careful there' date=' you appear to be insinuating that Loogie is a pedophile. (oh wait... aren't you trying to chew Loogie out over doing that kind of thing to others? Do as I say, not as I do, huh?) [/quote']

 

What...? I'm pretty sure he wasn't, if I read that right he was simply pointing out that physcally most youths become biologically viable at twelve to thirteen. Simple biology. There was a little snark there, but no mplication, other than if you are going by biology to be careful. For thouands of years, over twelve was of age to be married and still is in some places.

 

Shojo isn't technically pedophillia, at least not in the FO mod. It uses the base -adult- body, which means its a teenager at least. If you don't have a body elacer it wears undewear. If you have the Type3 or BewaretheGirl it is better endowed than most supermodels. Shoujo -can- mean from 7-20, but these days loli has come to fill the ~13 bracket from what I can tell. When most people buy a 'shoujo' manga most of the characters are 14 or more. They also often appear nude, or half naked, even in teenage aimed comics because nudity doesn't have the 'western view' in other countries. And by western I mean US and UK. The age of consent in Japan is thirteen, of course prefectures are able to have differing stances on it.

 

Believe it or not, anime and manga are popular these days, and some people would like to play Fallout as a typical teen anime. Teenagers with oversized guns and swords, with cutesy grating voices, are popular. Even adding a nude body replacer only adds some realism. You ahve to start adding sex mods and pose mods for it to get 'creepy'.

 

However, I didn't post this to sway or change any views, I just wanted to insert some actual facts into things if its going to contnue, rather than dicussing eastern terms as though they directly translate to 'under age' which is a vague term anyway. We live in a system where a man sleeping with a girl a day off her sixteenth birthday, because at a party she said she was older, will be put on the sex offender register, be unable to live within a lareg dstance of a school, have it over his head whenever he aplies for a job, ect. It ruins a life. So, while i'm all for protecting children, in this case adults need a bit of protecting too. The bile can be taken too far and be mis-aimed.

 

 

I'm just going to simply say I agree with GrimReaper at this point, except banning Loogie which was a shitty thing for Nexus to do, I see no difference between one virtual situation that would be horrific in real life or another. Some of the things I do in games has reduced (grown) family members to disgusted cries and earned me odd looks, such as severing an arm or the dark Brotherhood quests, and i've become so jaded that I didn't realise that a lot of the 'normal' stuff is actually highly disturbing. Yet, I feel guilty and remorseful if I so much as accidently bump into someone, and would not wish harm on a fly. I feel assassination and murder in general is horrific, yet I love the Dark Brotherhood questline and some of the setups. I've also played the Hitman games, carefulyl and meticulously planning murders. However, it doesn't even register as thought-crime (which is getting more popular) unless you add controversial elements.

 

To take a step back and look at it coldly, and away from bias, then rape of a grown adult and of a child has no real difference, other than the ammount of years the victim has spent alive. Either way its a terrible, horrific crime that leaves the person feeling violated and changes them forever, and can also leave injuries. It can also of course lead to pregnancy if the victm is female, and of suitable age. Horrific stuff, much like blowing mans brain out or slowly torturing them to death, severing limbs with a machete, or killing an entire family under the pretense of delivering gifts. Luckily, games and 'fantasy' are very different to reality, and no one is hurt. To start putting 'levels of morality' on things such as this is... difficult, and not a task i'd want.

 

I don't feel like getting into all this, since at the end of the day things like this can get downright nasty, but I didn't like how Grim seems to be getting effectvely smacked with the culture stick for simply holding a less than popular view. I could see it quickly devolving into a witch-hunt.

 

Edit: Sory Han, l'll add then, to keep it on topic that here i've always found the posters and community in general more mature than that of the Nexus. Be nice to see some of that here, if possible. =/

 

I'm also curious, mailamea, did you get around the ban in any way (at least IP wise?)

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Mailamea

Mailamea

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Uhmmmmm :???

Hey, guys please stop fighting or if its not it stop arguing about others take in things. I know its part of us, but it will just lead to nothing, so what if the other people wins the argue it doesn't mean its the end, right?

 

@Daguy: I actually read that, i can't believe it, so long XD

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Daguy

Daguy

Posted
Posted

Sorry, I just really like this place, and bickering back and forth is going to do nothing but divide the community or get people banned. I don't plan to say anymore, I said my piece, and hope in some way I helped rather than added fuel.

 

Did you manage to get around the banning in the end? Even if only the IP part?

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Mailamea

Mailamea

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Sorry' date=' I just really like this place, and bickering back and forth is going to do nothing but divide the community or get people banned. I don't plan to say anymore, I said my piece, and hope in some way I helped rather than added fuel.

 

Did you manage to get around the banning in the end? Even if only the IP part?

[/quote']

 

Don't worry its Ok.

 

As for the banning, i was doing my mods at school so what they IP'ed Ban is my college internet hahahaha.

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