Help on converting clothes/armor to GUTS body

[kosukosu1]

Hi I'm a total noob to Oblivion modding. I wanted to convert some clothes to the GUTS body (my new obsession). I'm trying to convert the stockings in Bisquit's real high heels mod to work with the GUTS lower body (the thicker legs).

 

I was able to save a NIF containing the existing stockings+heels mod along with the GUTS lower body mesh and skeleton, and imported it into Blender.

 

The GUTS legs are bigger than the stockings, so I think I need to adjust the mesh of the stockings to match the more thicker legs on the lower body.

 

Is the way to do this is to adjust the vertices of the stockings mesh to match the mesh of the legs? It looks like such a pain to adjust each vertex point by hand...am I going about this the right way??

 

Would appreciate any help

[gerra6]

There are lots of different ways to handle clothing conversions.

 

Probably the best, if you're planning on converting many armors that were designed for a specific body style to another specific body style, would be to create a lattice.

 

Here's a tutorial to get you started

 

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/index.php/Blender/Adapting_Armor_to_Bodies_with_Lattices

 

The drawback with lattices is that each is generally specific for converting from a single body style to a single body style, so you might need a lattice for DMRA to GUTS and then another one for HGEC-C to GUTS, for example.

 

The other drawback is that, although they do much of the work for you, you still have to do a ton of cleaning for each item you convert.

 

I'm currently developing a Blender script (loosely based on my seam mender script) that will automatically snap selected vertices to within a specified distance of the nearest face of a target mesh. If I can work the kinks out, and it works the way I hope it will, it should handle a big chunk of the drudgery of clothing conversions.

 

I should have a beta version up for testing in a day or so.

 

Ultimately, however, you'll need to get comfortable with vertex editing in Blender. It is extremely powerful, but there are a number of tricks that can make it infinitely easier.

 

First things first. Human meshes and clothing should generally be symmetrical (unless asymmetry is intended). So enable x-axis symmetry. (button window, f9 from edit mode)

 

The 'z' key toggles between solid and wireframe views. This makes it much easier to select the specific vertices that you want to modify.

 

Control-Shift-Alt-M selects all non-manifold vertices. That sounds scary, but in practical terms it is generally a quick and easy way to select all of the edges of a mesh.

 

Pressing the 'b' key gives you a couple of different mouse selection modes.

 

'h' hides currently selected vertices (in edit mode) or objects (in object mode). 'alt-h' unhides them.

 

shift + and shift - grow or shrink your current vertex (or face or edge) selections

 

Experiment with creating vertex groups, assigning selected vertices to them, and then using 'select' and 'deselect' to help you easily control which vertices are selected. (I use this method, combined with control shift alt m and shift + to quickly select specific rings of vertices).

 

Lastly, magnet snap and proportional edit can be extraordinarily useful. (icons in the 3D view header bar)

 

Magnet snap allows you to snap the selected vetex (or vertices) to either a vertex, edge, or face.

 

Proportional edit allows you to select a single vertex and apply transformations to surrounding vertices in a precisely controlled way. (mouse wheel grows or shrinks the affected area)

[kosukosu1]

Thanks gerra6, the shortcuts and tips you gave are extremely helpful for a beginner like me. I'm just getting my feet wet but it looks like keyboard shortcuts is the way to get around blender.

 

I appreciate all the help I got so far - even though oblivion is an old game, it still has a lot of potential esp with all the mods out there.

[kosukosu1]

Is there a way to create a lattice from an existing mesh? That would seem to make it easier to transform a mesh to match that of another mesh...

[gerra6]

Is there a way to create a lattice from an existing mesh? That would seem to make it easier to transform a mesh to match that of another mesh...

 

That's an excellent question. As I was writing my initial reply' date=' it occurred to me that I might be able to write a script to automatically generate a lattice that could transform one body type into another.

 

With luck, and if I can code it properly, that lattice would be able to convert armor between those body types with only minimal modifications.

 

I'm working on it.

 

Thanks gerra6, the shortcuts and tips you gave are extremely helpful for a beginner like me. I'm just getting my feet wet but it looks like keyboard shortcuts is the way to get around blender.

 

I appreciate all the help I got so far - even though oblivion is an old game, it still has a lot of potential esp with all the mods out there.

 

There are still folks modding for Oblivion, myself included. I've actually added a few new GUTS body styles to the latest revision of Setbody Reloaded, and will have a few more in the next release.

[kosukosu1]

That's an excellent question. As I was writing my initial reply' date=' it occurred to me that I might be able to write a script to automatically generate a lattice that could transform one body type into another.

 

With luck, and if I can code it properly, that lattice would be able to convert armor between those body types with only minimal modifications.

 

I'm working on it.

[/quote']

 

Wow that sounds great! I'd be very much interested in using such a script

 

There are still folks modding for Oblivion, myself included. I've actually added a few new GUTS body styles to the latest revision of Setbody Reloaded, and will have a few more in the next release.

 

I just recently installed the latest setbody reloaded mod and saw the new GUTS body styles - they look great - they are kind of a new obsession of mine - cant wait to see what's on store next

 

Thanks again!

[gerra6]

 

I just recently installed the latest setbody reloaded mod and saw the new GUTS body styles - they look great - they are kind of a new obsession of mine - cant wait to see what's on store next

 

Thanks again!

 

Let me know if you have any requests for Setbody. My new seam mender script (http://www.loverslab.com/showthread.php?tid=12378) makes adding new breasts to existing bodies ridiculously easy.

[Happysparkles]

o,O Hey there Kosu xD and Gerra. I popped in the right place haha!

Gerra not sure if I mentioend it before but if not it is worth another mention. Thank you for donating your time to newer modders like us! It is greatly apprenticed. Heck if your taking students count me in xD.

 

*Bribes in a hidden yet visible kind of way*

 

xD

[kosukosu1]

So I played around with blender and found that to fit an item like stockings to another body type, the "Shrinkwrap" modifier made it so much easier.

 

I exported the nif, fixed up the structure in Nifskope (removed multiple Scene Roots), and replaced the nif - it showed up ingame, but the positioning is very off - what seems to be the problem here?

 

I attached a couple screenshots.

 

Feel like I'm so close...

 

I'll try out that waist seam script too gerra6

[gerra6]

So I played around with blender and found that to fit an item like stockings to another body type' date=' the "Shrinkwrap" modifier made it so much easier.

 

I exported the nif, fixed up the structure in Nifskope (removed multiple Scene Roots), and replaced the nif - it showed up ingame, but the positioning is very off - what seems to be the problem here?

 

I attached a couple screenshots.

 

Feel like I'm so close...

 

I'll try out that waist seam script too gerra6

[/quote']

 

I've never had much luck getting the shrinkwrap modifier to work the way I wanted. Congratulations on getting it to behave.

 

Without having the nif to play with, I can't say what the problem is for certain, however my guess would be that it is related to "(removed multiple Scene Roots)".

 

In Nifskope, click on the scene root. Now look at the block details. you should see three distinct transformations listed (translation, rotation, scale). That gives the scene level transformation

 

Now click on the NiTriStrips representing your mesh. You should see those same three fields (translation, rotation, scale). This gives the object level transformation.

 

If you had multiple scenes and deleted the extra ones, chances are you've got the wrong scene level transformations. As for what the numbers should be, I have no idea. It looks like you probably have a positive number in the X field for either the scene or mesh transformation.

 

So try setting the X to 0 in both fields.

 

Information for future reference:

In general, I find that applying all transformations directly to the mesh in Blender before I export gives more predictable and cleaner results than leaving those transformations lying around, harassing passerbys, and generally getting into trouble. One good trick is to use Control A while in object mode to apply any object level transformations directly to the mesh.

[gerra6]

o' date='O Hey there Kosu xD and Gerra. I popped in the right place haha!

Gerra not sure if I mentioend it before but if not it is worth another mention. Thank you for donating your time to newer modders like us! It is greatly apprenticed. Heck if your taking students count me in xD.

 

*Bribes in a hidden yet visible kind of way*

 

xD

[/quote']

 

The truth is, I'm a bit of a newbie to Blender (I started learning in the first week of August), so there are a tremendous number of things that are a complete mystery to me at the moment. I've been so focused on mesh work (predominantly for Setbody Reloaded) and learning how to write python scripts that I haven't even tried to modify an animation yet (it's on my list of things to learn).

 

That said, I am happy to share anything that I have learned to far, but the truth is, my knowledge is still extremely limited. I've always found, though, that explaining a subject to another person helps me to understand it better as well.

 

Besides, several others have helped me out a great deal. Room207, for example, took the time to explain, in exhaustive detail, why my seams (pre 1.20) were so terrible (divergent vector normals, coupled with the inability to modify vector normals in Blender). A bit of Google fu and a few days spent digging through the Blender API and I had managed to invent a brand new technique for creating perfect generic seams (and a suite of scripts for directly modifying vector normals).

 

A few refinements and iterations later, we've got the Seam Mender script (which is handy for lots of things, not just fixing seams).

[Happysparkles]

o' date='O Hey there Kosu xD and Gerra. I popped in the right place haha!

Gerra not sure if I mentioend it before but if not it is worth another mention. Thank you for donating your time to newer modders like us! It is greatly apprenticed. Heck if your taking students count me in xD.

 

*Bribes in a hidden yet visible kind of way*

 

xD

[/quote']

 

The truth is, I'm a bit of a newbie to Blender (I started learning in the first week of August), so there are a tremendous number of things that are a complete mystery to me at the moment. I've been so focused on mesh work (predominantly for Setbody Reloaded) and learning how to write python scripts that I haven't even tried to modify an animation yet (it's on my list of things to learn).

 

That said, I am happy to share anything that I have learned to far, but the truth is, my knowledge is still extremely limited. I've always found, though, that explaining a subject to another person helps me to understand it better as well.

 

Besides, several others have helped me out a great deal. Room207, for example, took the time to explain, in exhaustive detail, why my seams (pre 1.20) were so terrible (divergent vector normals, coupled with the inability to modify vector normals in Blender). A bit of Google fu and a few days spent digging through the Blender API and I had managed to invent a brand new technique for creating perfect generic seams (and a suite of scripts for directly modifying vector normals).

 

A few refinements and iterations later, we've got the Seam Mender script (which is handy for lots of things, not just fixing seams).

Exactly your an extreamly fast learner. Soon you will be making some powerful mods. I mean to make plug in's for blender so soon is just AMAZING. I am still going to try the 3ds max link you gave me not to long ago. Though as you mentioend it is mostly good for skyrim it still would not hurt to learn it. I think once I get comfortable learning the techniques most the modders use to make clothing I will have a full head of steam. I just need to get my first GOOD outfit released lol.

 

I will try to pick your brain from time to time for sure, it's good to see someone who is happy to share the knowledge, I am the same but I just suck at explaining so when I get REALLY good (if it ever happens) I will do for others what I am asking for as well. Video tutorials though not sure it will be as much and as in detailed as the on you gave me xD.

[gerra6]

Exactly your an extreamly fast learner. Soon you will be making some powerful mods. I mean to make plug in's for blender so soon is just AMAZING. I am still going to try the 3ds max link you gave me not to long ago. Though as you mentioend it is mostly good for skyrim it still would not hurt to learn it. I think once I get comfortable learning the techniques most the modders use to make clothing I will have a full head of steam. I just need to get my first GOOD outfit released lol.

 

I will try to pick your brain from time to time for sure' date=' it's good to see someone who is happy to share the knowledge, I am the same but I just suck at explaining so when I get REALLY good (if it ever happens) I will do for others what I am asking for as well. Video tutorials though not sure it will be as much and as in detailed as the on you gave me xD.

[/quote']

 

Unfortunately, I'm no help when it comes to 3DS Max. I'm not a student any more and there is no way I could afford that crazy price tag.

 

I've started hanging out at the Niftools forum (in my other online persona) and am getting ready to *try* to start doing some of the grunt work in improving Skyrim support for Blender.

[Happysparkles]

Yes I can understand that. But yes BLENDER NEEDS Skyrim!

So I can dabble a bit with it. I have a basic understanding of blender and like you I played around with it testing, thing is is that I can make a thong (an Myeh one) but if you ask me to make anything else I will look dumb founded lol. I have practiced but always fails I will have to play around with your new tool and see if it does me a bit of justice.

 

I got BIG plans if I learn to get good at this stuff.

[kosukosu1]

In Nifskope, click on the scene root. Now look at the block details. you should see three distinct transformations listed (translation, rotation, scale). That gives the scene level transformation

 

Now click on the NiTriStrips representing your mesh. You should see those same three fields (translation, rotation, scale). This gives the object level transformation.

 

If you had multiple scenes and deleted the extra ones, chances are you've got the wrong scene level transformations. As for what the numbers should be, I have no idea. It looks like you probably have a positive number in the X field for either the scene or mesh transformation.

 

Hmm I checked those attributes and they seem to be 0,0,0 for the scene and mesh transformations. Do you mind taking a look at the NIF file?

 

http://www.mediafire.com/?50tgr48k5hh2yze

 

Information for future reference:

In general, I find that applying all transformations directly to the mesh in Blender before I export gives more predictable and cleaner results than leaving those transformations lying around, harassing passerbys, and generally getting into trouble. One good trick is to use Control A while in object mode to apply any object level transformations directly to the mesh.

 

I think this is what I did, by hitting the Apply button when doing the Shrinkwrap - i assume the transformation was then applied to the mesh?

 

Thanks for your feedback and help though, I really appreciate it

[gerra6]

I think this is what I did' date=' by hitting the Apply button when doing the Shrinkwrap - i assume the transformation was then applied to the mesh?

 

Thanks for your feedback and help though, I really appreciate it

[/quote']

 

OK, I've taken a look. Somewhere along the line, something went horribly wrong with the weightpainting.

 

To get an idea of what went wrong, take a look at the weightpainting in Blender. Select the mesh object you want to inspect and then hit Control Tab to switch to weightpaint mode. Down in the editing pane of your button panel, look at Vertex Groups. You may be something like "Bip01 Foot.L". Click on the drop down and inspect other groups to get an idea of how they are painted.

 

In particular, compare Bip01 Foot.R to Bip01 Foot.L.

 

Now compare that to the GUTS leg mesh that you were using as a reference.

 

You may notice a number of additional groups (calf, thigh, etc) that are missing from the stockings.

 

Although the results can be a bit inconsistent, experiment with the boneweight copy script to try and copy the boneweights from the reference leg mesh to your stockings.

 

*edit* One word of warning. Previously I recommended experimenting with using vertex groups to manage vertex selections in edit mode. I neglected to warn you to avoid modifying pre-existing vertex groups in any way, unless you know exactly what you are doing. Vertex groups are used for many things in Blender. Any group whose name starts with Bip is a boneweight group.

[kosukosu1]

OK, I've taken a look. Somewhere along the line, something went horribly wrong with the weightpainting.

 

Ohh ok, I remember getting an error when exporting to nif, saying that weights weren't applied for some vertices so I arbitrarily assigned a weight to them (1.0) - is copying the weight values over a simple affair I hope? Ill play around with that.

 

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, I'd have not known otherwise!

[gerra6]

OK' date=' I've taken a look. Somewhere along the line, something went horribly wrong with the weightpainting.

[/quote']

 

Ohh ok, I remember getting an error when exporting to nif, saying that weights weren't applied for some vertices so I arbitrarily assigned a weight to them (1.0) - is copying the weight values over a simple affair I hope? Ill play around with that.

 

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, I'd have not known otherwise!

 

Ah, that sounds like the skeleton was missing some bones.

 

When you are working with meshes, it is often a good idea to start by deleting the skeleton and then, once you are done, parent a new skeleton.

 

1. Shift-Select all of the meshes that you will eventually export

2. Import the skeleton using the normal process *except* on the options page, click on "Import Skeleton Only + Parent Selected"

3. Once the skeleton imports, it should be parented to any meshes that had been selected

4. Export your meshes

[gerra6]

OK. I've posted a beta version of my lattice maker.

 

http://www.loverslab.com/showthread.php?tid=12606

 

It's very experimental at this stage, but it shows promise. Please give it a shot and let me know what you think.

[kosukosu1]

Thanks for the tips gerra - here's what I ended up doing:

 

- opened up the GUTS lower body NIF and the Bisquits high heels NIF in NIFSkope.

- copied the NiNodes on the GUTS lower body NIF (Bip01 L Op3 and Bip01 R Op3) to the Bisquits HH NIF

- copied the Foot:Legs NiTriStrips node to the Bisquits NIF to get the GUTS lower body on the to-be-converted Bisquits HH NIF

- Saved NIF, imported into blender

- Added the Shrinkwrap modifier to the stockings mesh, selected the Foot:Legs mesh as the target (Above surface), and adjusted the offset until it was mostly covered.

- Adjusted the vertices manually so the stockings covered the legs

- Deleted the GUTS lower body mesh

- Exported to NIF

- Opened converted NIF in NIFSkope, removed the Bip01 L Op3 and Bip01 R Op3 nodes since these weren't on the original mod mesh

- Saved, copied over to Data\meshes\clothes\BisSPHeels

 

...and it worked!

 

Here's a link to it:

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?c87h93x0a5v9qfz

 

You need to use SetBody to set your body to HGEC GUTS and choose the SP Stockings Black HH clothing. It's still an early start, so there might be some flaws here and there.

 

Thanks a lot to gerra6 and happysparkles for the help so far! I'll give the lattice maker script a try for the next part of the conversion

 

One thing that I don't know how yet to do is to edit an existing mod symmetrically - what's the simplest way to do this? The mesh is already symmetrical - is there a way to tell blender that?

[gerra6]

One thing that I don't know how yet to do is to edit an existing mod symmetrically - what's the simplest way to do this? The mesh is already symmetrical - is there a way to tell blender that?

 

If the mesh is *perfectly* symmetrical, you want to enable X-Axis symmetry.

 

1. Open the Buttons Window.

2. Under "Panels" Select "Editing". Alternately, hit F9

3. Hit 'tab' to enter edit mode

3.a. You should see a whole bunch of stuff in the button window

4. Look for "Mesh Tools More"

5. Select "X-Axis mirror"

 

Now, if a mesh is not perfectly symmetrical, X-Axis mirror won't do much. I have a tendency to chop meshes in half, editing the half I want, and then mirroring it and using a bunch of tricks to put it back together and get the UV and boneweights fixed. Unfortunately, it often takes a fair amount of vertex work just to prep a mesh for chopping, so it's a fairly advanced technique.

 

One thing that you can try, though, is the script "Mirror Vertex Locations and Weight" that comes bundled with Blender. I'm not completely happy with it, but it's not bad.

[Happysparkles]

Thanks for the tips gerra - here's what I ended up doing:

 

- opened up the GUTS lower body NIF and the Bisquits high heels NIF in NIFSkope.

- copied the NiNodes on the GUTS lower body NIF (Bip01 L Op3 and Bip01 R Op3) to the Bisquits HH NIF

- copied the Foot:Legs NiTriStrips node to the Bisquits NIF to get the GUTS lower body on the to-be-converted Bisquits HH NIF

- Saved NIF' date=' imported into blender

- Added the Shrinkwrap modifier to the stockings mesh, selected the Foot:Legs mesh as the target (Above surface), and adjusted the offset until it was mostly covered.

- Adjusted the vertices manually so the stockings covered the legs

- Deleted the GUTS lower body mesh

- Exported to NIF

- Opened converted NIF in NIFSkope, removed the Bip01 L Op3 and Bip01 R Op3 nodes since these weren't on the original mod mesh

- Saved, copied over to Data\meshes\clothes\BisSPHeels

 

...and it worked!

 

Here's a link to it:

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?c87h93x0a5v9qfz

 

You need to use SetBody to set your body to HGEC GUTS and choose the SP Stockings Black HH clothing. It's still an early start, so there might be some flaws here and there.

 

Thanks a lot to gerra6 and happysparkles for the help so far! I'll give the lattice maker script a try for the next part of the conversion

 

One thing that I don't know how yet to do is to edit an existing mod symmetrically - what's the simplest way to do this? The mesh is already symmetrical - is there a way to tell blender that?

[/quote']

 

I am so happy it went well for you. Yes I have taken a liking to shrinkwrap as well but I am still "beta" testing it since it sometimes messes with the mesh. Your stocking work looks GREAT, even perfect. I look forward to more of you work. Hell soon I might be asking you for advice haha. I am catching on overall slowly thanks to my senior year in College lol X_X. Keep it up!